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Author Topic: Do Your Goddesses/Gods or God Have a Plan?  (Read 11547 times)
Waldfrau
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« Reply #30: April 03, 2009, 11:28:51 am »

I basically came to the conclusion that gods were ... so very one precise thing that we humans have to see them in a variety of guises in order to be able to understand the precision.

I've planned to post a new thread on different aspects of deities because I was a bit confused about the many surnames and aspects of Artemis when I found your post. It really gave me a lot to think about, thanks for sharing. Smiley

I think the subject really deserved its own thread (although there is quite a deep discussion in this thread already), so I just posted your quote here:

http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?board=22.0
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Waldfrau
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« Reply #31: April 03, 2009, 11:39:48 am »

I remember seeing a link to a comic somewhere on here, can't remember for the life of me where though, about a person asking one of the Netjer why they took an interest in humans, the Netjer replied, "Because we love you."
That one? http://netjeru.comicgenesis.com/d/20070925.html
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« Reply #32: April 09, 2009, 05:34:39 pm »

I was brought of Christian and was always taught that God had a plan not only for humanity as a whole but for me as an individual.  Many of the things that happened in my life or that didn't happen in my life were because of God's plan.  Not predestination, but if I chose to listen and follow I would be following God's plan for my life.

Do you think that other deities besides the Christian God work this way?  Do you believe that for instance, if you're one of the people that a deity contacted first that it was for some "higher" purpose if you will.

Also if you're one of the people that first initiated contact do you believe that the particular deity that you chose you chose for a reason?

To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?

I would comment with my thoughts on this but I really don't know what, or whom in for that matter, to believe just yet. 

The idea of fate, or predestination, isn't a concept exclusive to Christianity. In Heathenism they have the Norns; beings that determine the future of a persons life at birth. Whatever fortunate or misfortunate that comes your way is attributed to this Norn.  Even the Gods were subject to fate and Wyrd, and the conclusion of the world (Ragnarok) has already been seen, the outcome predetermined. What's most inspiring is that the Gods have accepted their fate, and battle knowing they will lose. Because it's meant to be... and they live and die in honor.   


Greek mythology has a similar counterpart to this in the form of the Fates. These three women weave the future of man, and the outcome cannot be changed. (Except in rare circumstance.)

Unfortunately these are the only two instances that I'm somewhat familiar with. No doubt there's more.



While I believe there can be a theme to one's life, and maybe even one that you are meant to overcome, I don't believe then that every life is destined to do a God's will, or further a deity's agenda. Sometimes our purpose is just to be...to give life color and meaning by being a part of the relatively insignificant background. And sometimes a man is born who will be the one who happens to be in the right place at the right time.

If predestination is in fact real, then those who are less significant should experience the greatest level of freedom in personal choice. An outcome for them is predetermined, but maybe not to every minute detail. Situations will come and go in their life, but never anything on such a grand scale that a single choice will alter the course of history. Whereas, that one who was born under whatever epic star, has a very rigid course to follow to make sure the impact is made on history. In these instances of insignifance, I don't believe the divine has a huge stake in our lives, and therefore, are not as present, not as close. Ancestor worship helps here, when a guiding hand is needed, when comfort and solace are requested. It also answers the question of where magic fits in with predetermination. If an insignificant individual has a pretty lenient standard of what they can and cannot choose, then affecting change with magic doesn't throw a huge wrench into things. And come on, how many of people are really destined for Greatness? For revolutionary acts and deeds? Not every President has had a huge impact on the world even, some just come and go, for example.   


There's also the concept that life is not so much predetermined specifically for the individual, but that it is the very nature of life to follow a predetermined plan for living. Just as every person travels through infancy to adulthood, that person also travels through different stages of experience. And it is myth, with it's heroes and sagas, that show us the plan for our own growth. Whichever battle or obstacle the God overcame, is an obstacle and battle you will face, and his or her tale is a guide book on how to follow the course. We become the God, the obstacle becomes the monster (or vice versa I suppose), and in this we are part of the bigger whole.

But, hey, who really knows, right?  Cheesy





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« Reply #33: April 10, 2009, 05:46:14 am »


If predestination is in fact real, then those who are less significant should experience the greatest level of freedom in personal choice. An outcome for them is predetermined, but maybe not to every minute detail. Situations will come and go in their life, but never anything on such a grand scale that a single choice will alter the course of history. Whereas, that one who was born under whatever epic star, has a very rigid course to follow to make sure the impact is made on history. In these instances of insignifance, I don't believe the divine has a huge stake in our lives, and therefore, are not as present, not as close. Ancestor worship helps here, when a guiding hand is needed, when comfort and solace are requested. It also answers the question of where magic fits in with predetermination. If an insignificant individual has a pretty lenient standard of what they can and cannot choose, then affecting change with magic doesn't throw a huge wrench into things. And come on, how many of people are really destined for Greatness? For revolutionary acts and deeds? Not every President has had a huge impact on the world even, some just come and go, for example.   


There's also the concept that life is not so much predetermined specifically for the individual, but that it is the very nature of life to follow a predetermined plan for living. Just as every person travels through infancy to adulthood, that person also travels through different stages of experience. And it is myth, with it's heroes and sagas, that show us the plan for our own growth. Whichever battle or obstacle the God overcame, is an obstacle and battle you will face, and his or her tale is a guide book on how to follow the course. We become the God, the obstacle becomes the monster (or vice versa I suppose), and in this we are part of the bigger whole.

But, hey, who really knows, right?  Cheesy


I think those are some good points.  Some presidents don't make much of an impact while others have become somewhat legendary, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln to name perhaps the most famous.  I find it interesting that in some people's lives things just seem to fall into place while in others a person will have to struggle more than other people, even if both individuals are in a similar situation with similar backgrounds.   

I think your last paragraph was the best explanation on the purpose of myths I've heard.
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« Reply #34: April 10, 2009, 06:49:30 am »


I think your last paragraph was the best explanation on the purpose of myths I've heard.


Thanks, I found it to be an interesting concept as well. If you happen to find that your more interested in this line of thought, I'd suggest reading the works of Joseph Campbell. It's a good starting point to understanding the ways mythology can work in our lives.

 
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« Reply #35: April 10, 2009, 11:37:09 pm »

Thanks, I found it to be an interesting concept as well. If you happen to find that your more interested in this line of thought, I'd suggest reading the works of Joseph Campbell. It's a good starting point to understanding the ways mythology can work in our lives.
Keeping in mind, though, that the "monomythology" approach to myth (in which the emphasis is on similarity of myth and finding a common source) is largely discredited in academic myth-studies.  It's viable for the use you mention, Ayn (which is more [Jungian] psychology), but as sociology/anthropology, it's bad scholarship.

If Catja sees this, she can express the problems with it much better than I can.

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« Reply #36: April 11, 2009, 02:15:48 am »

Keeping in mind, though, that the "monomythology" approach to myth (in which the emphasis is on similarity of myth and finding a common source) is largely discredited in academic myth-studies.  It's viable for the use you mention, Ayn (which is more [Jungian] psychology), but as sociology/anthropology, it's bad scholarship.

If Catja sees this, she can express the problems with it much better than I can.

Sunflower

I understand the criticism against his work (context, agenda, a poor-man's Jung, etc.)for the most part, but personally still find his writings valuable in introducing new concepts that encourage a curiosity about what value myth has to us, in a  beginner reader format. But definitely expand on the  questions that arise form his writings, challenge them, discover what you believe, and basically use it as a starting point to learning what else is out there.  Doesn't everyone do that?  Wink

And obviously his writings have some measure of value, they're still printed and appreciated today- But, yeah... now I'm remind of Stephanie Meyers, so maybe that's not the best argument.  Cheesy

Certainly interested in Catja's opinion, regardless!
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« Reply #37: April 11, 2009, 09:04:04 am »

Anyway, I can't adequately communicate this sudden understanding that was sparked by Darkhawk's post totally out of the blue.


I'll second all the praise for Darkhawk for how he's expressed this. I've never been able to pin it down quite like that.

My perspective maybe illuminates his point. Unlike most (all?) others in this forum, my gods are of my own discovery/creation (depending on how you choose to look at it); there was no body of existing myths about these various gods.

Rather, they started as *ideas*: This god is about this; that god is about that...exactly what Darkhawk describes. Sometimes my ideas were vague, others precise, and there were all sorts of borrowed elements and various influences in there, but that's how they started.

It took years until I started writing myths about them, but when I did, those ideas kept expressing themselves in new, interesting, and unexpected ways...but the gods always stayed true to their fundamental idea. And if I wrote something that strayed from that idea, it felt entirely wrong (either my instincts were screaming, or that god was protesting loudly...depending on how you choose to look at it). So the ideas would evolve and deepen, and I would get new insights, but the core idea always remained for each god.

An example: My god of time, Chronos, started as the least developed--middle god in a space/time/thought triad, with no other thought behind him except that he kept time going. That was it. When I started writing the myths, he was largely removed from the action...and yet he kept popping up to set things right at the end, in myth after myth. Eventually I recognized that he is a god of Balance, with time as his tool to maintain that balance...the kind of balance that comes with age and wisdom. When I foolishly started to write a myth where he falls in romantic love, he quickly corrected me. There's not much balanced about romantic love--it makes you do crazy things!--and he was having no part of it.

That's my experience. Thanks, Darkhawk, for summing it up so eloquently and succintly.




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« Reply #38: April 11, 2009, 09:34:33 am »

To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?
 

To answer your question, Spectacular Views: Yes, the gods have a plan for me. I'm supposed to tell their story.

As for whether the gods have a plan for the universe in general, no; as others have expressed, they have their own ways and concerns and agendas and spheres of influence, but they don't have a plan for everything. Except for one of my gods; he's got a plan, but that's because he's a schemer.

(By the way, I like your avatar; it reminds me of mine.)
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« Reply #39: April 11, 2009, 05:46:05 pm »

I'll second all the praise for Darkhawk for how he's expressed this. I've never been able to pin it down quite like that.

My perspective maybe illuminates his point. Unlike most (all?) others in this forum, my gods are of my own discovery/creation (depending on how you choose to look at it); there was no body of existing myths about these various gods.

Rather, they started as *ideas*: This god is about this; that god is about that...exactly what Darkhawk describes. Sometimes my ideas were vague, others precise, and there were all sorts of borrowed elements and various influences in there, but that's how they started


*scratches chin*

I'm going to try to come back to this if I can articulate it more, but reading Walter Otto's book on Dionysos made me rethink this, that the Idea ("God of X") did not precede the cultus or worship of a god, or the Being. And in fact that's how we have such a degraded history from ancient cultures on religious practices is because those who were researching them had said "People wanting God of X, so they worshipped Being like that", when that really may not have been how it worked. According to him (and I think it sounds a lot more true) people saw a Being, gave cultus to said Being, and eventually articulated that Being had control over X. If that makes any sense?

Of course I'm still trying to wrap my head around Otto's writing style, but thats the gist of what I got. He is a hard man to read.  Undecided

(Of course I realize now that you were referring to your own discovered gods, so I guess this is just a general reply.)
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« Reply #40: April 12, 2009, 12:49:19 am »

(Of course I realize now that you were referring to your own discovered gods, so I guess this is just a general reply.)

Yeah, I'm not trying to make a claim that an understanding of gods in general developed in this way; merely that my understanding of my own personal gods developed in a "reverse engineered" fashion, and that this might serve to illustrate Darkhawk's point.
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« Reply #41: November 30, 2010, 07:24:41 pm »

I was brought of Christian and was always taught that God had a plan not only for humanity as a whole but for me as an individual.  Many of the things that happened in my life or that didn't happen in my life were because of God's plan.  Not predestination, but if I chose to listen and follow I would be following God's plan for my life.

Do you think that other deities besides the Christian God work this way?  Do you believe that for instance, if you're one of the people that a deity contacted first that it was for some "higher" purpose if you will.

Also if you're one of the people that first initiated contact do you believe that the particular deity that you chose you chose for a reason?

To what extent, if at all, do you believe your deities have a plan for your life?

I would comment with my thoughts on this but I really don't know what, or whom in for that matter, to believe just yet. 

My Goddess has nudged me often and quite strongly, at times, to try professional writing. It has not exactly came as surprise because i write little stories on the net since i was a kid, but it was never nothing but an hobby. I simply didn't think i could do a living out of it until she gave me several pushes and brought me to realize that that was what I realled dreamed for myself- She just told me to believe in my talent and be persistent.
Some time after, she still led me throught a sort of omen walking that  revealed l'm currently coming full circle with a past life experience where i both wrote and painted, but felt like my success was refrained by my role of woman and wife within that time society. This bizarrely explained some patterns behind my current lovelife experiences as well.

What I believe is that Hekate had not necessarily a 'greater good scheme' but simply nudged toward me on the journey my soul needs to mature through in this incarnation because i'm her devotee.
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