Creating my own Tarot deck?

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[Waldfrau]

Not that I have much time for it, but I've played with the thought to create an own deck since a year and now I've even more definite ideas about how it should look. Then reading Heartshadows threads make my fingers itchier. Not sure if I'll ever find the time to actually draw the cards and I'm a lousy artist anyway. But I've the feeling I need to get this idea out of my head and there's a lot of stuff I could process by creating a Tarot deck. Robin Wood says somewhere in her Tarot book that creating your deck makes you living through every card. So I think vice versa creating a deck would help you to mentally process stuff you've lived through.


Here's what I'm thinking about in a nutshell:

It's not necessarily a traditional 78 cards deck and I don't know how many cards it will have yet, but I have some ideas about the contents. The deck will center around forest wildlife and Artemis (yeah, I know, as if you didn't see this coming...  ). I'm not sure if it will work out in a major/minor arcana way with suits, but I have some sequences of cards I want to see (maybe I can structure them into the 78 scheme, maybe not).

1) There'll be a sequence of European wild animals (stag, hind, bear, sow, boar, fish otter, hare/rabbit, snake, lynx, maybe also a wild cat, owl and a day active bird of prey, nut hatch or a tit, black bird, mice, squirrel, maybe also a wood pecker, bat, hedge hog, pidgeon, crane, crow, frog, wolf). Those could be done with some similarities to the major arcana and serve as ways to look at life or archetypes. I'm not sure yet if I want to structure them as a kind of development like the traditional major arcana is.

2) There'll be a sequence about Artemis' hunt, which will be structured in a logical way of steps (from preparing for the hunt to the death of the prey). Since in my UPG her hunt is a lot about willpower and purpose, this could be like the suit of the fire element (if I ever find corresponding suits for the other elements).

3) There could be a sequence of situations you encounter while you wander through the wilderness. I'm not having a definite layout yet, but some examples could be like 'getting lost in the midst of the forest', 'finding a spring', 'crossing a river', 'meeting a crossroad', 'encounter with a dangerous animal', 'taking a refreshing bath'.

4) Maybe some other sequences?

There are also some mythical events like the birth of Apollo and the death of Akteion I want to work into the sequences, but don't know yet which ones exactly and where they would fit best.



What do you think?

[Tana]

What do you think?

I think it a great idea. 
Maybe you shouldn't think 'tarot' too much though.
I see a lot of potential in your idea, just play with it a bit more and don't try to force it in a tarot-systemish thingy.
It could be a whole different thing, coherent in itself.

[SunflowerP]

What do you think?

I'm going to go farther than Tana did, and say it's already not a tarot deck - you've got very different "storylines" than those that can be construed from tarot, as well as very different card-themes.  At that point, it's not just misleading to label it tarot (admittedly a longstanding pet peeve of mine), but trying to force it into a tarotesque structure would mean not doing justice to the system that's shaping in your head - it sounds like it could be an excellent system in its own right.

From the sound of it, I suspect it might turn out to be less a divination system in the usual sense, and more a personal-exploration tool - some folks use tarot that way (IME, it's a moderately common CM practice; I've never used it that way, but I know a little about it - that's what I was referring to with "storylines that can be construed from tarot), and some non-tarot cartomancy decks are better suited to meditation, introspection, inner journeying, etc than to conventional-style readings (the Froud/Macbeth Faeries' Oracle functions in that kind of way for me).

Sunflower

[Waldfrau]

I'm going to go farther than Tana did, and say it's already not a tarot deck - you've got very different "storylines" than those that can be construed from tarot, as well as very different card-themes.  At that point, it's not just misleading to label it tarot (admittedly a longstanding pet peeve of mine), but trying to force it into a tarotesque structure would mean not doing justice to the system that's shaping in your head - it sounds like it could be an excellent system in its own right.

I think you're right. It might even fit much better to the theme of wildlife if it's more open. The different sequences don't need to correspond to each other like they do in the Tarot. They don't need to have the same number of cards or a corresponding storyline, even though it might make the deck a bit less structured.

From the sound of it, I suspect it might turn out to be less a divination system in the usual sense, and more a personal-exploration tool - some folks use tarot that way (IME, it's a moderately common CM practice; I've never used it that way, but I know a little about it - that's what I was referring to with "storylines that can be construed from tarot), and some non-tarot cartomancy decks are better suited to meditation, introspection, inner journeying, etc than to conventional-style readings (the Froud/Macbeth Faeries' Oracle functions in that kind of way for me).

That's an interesting comment. I wonder how they will play out when they are finished (in a couple of years or decades). My present goal is to just get a better understanding of Artemis and all this forest & wildlife stuff in my head. But I'd also like to have a deck as a tool for deity communication. Something I could use for more indirect communication. The problem with direct and trance stuff is that you can't do it too often and that it's hard to controll. With an oracle system you would have a set of symbols the deity could communicate through less directly. I'm not sure I'll reach that goal.

[Waldfrau]

Thinking about a working title:

Forest Path Cards
Wisdom of the Hunt Cards
Artemis Cards


4) Went through my myth material and think I'll make another sequence about the theme of birth and young children/animals which will also feature the story about Leto fleeing from Hera and giving birth to the twins. This could also be a storyline with progressive steps like the sequence about hunting.

3) The 'wilderness situations': I'm thinking of making this one more specificially about the seeker. It will not only show things you encounter in the wilderness, but will be about finding a spiritual path, having a relationship to deity. It could feature scence like an offering, a dedication, meditation, trance. I think those would merge will with the 'wilderness situations' as one sequence and have correspondances to the hunting sequence, because the prey of the hunt isn't just something to eat, it's a co-creature, it's a part of yourself somewhere and a part of the divine. So hunting the prey means to me to also hunt your own soul and divinity. Then for a successfull hunt you need to understand the prey, this makes the hunt a hunt for knowledge of yourself and the divine. Some of Artemis' not-so-nice-interactions with humans could also enter here.

2) The hunting sequence: I think this one is the core of the deck so I will work it out first.

1) The wildlife: Forgot a fish species, maybe salmon. I think not all of those need their own cards, some could be featured on other cards. Maybe this one I will work out at last, because I'm not sure yet what to get out of it.

[Tana]

The problem with direct and trance stuff is that you can't do it too often and that it's hard to controll. With an oracle system you would have a set of symbols the deity could communicate through less directly. I'm not sure I'll reach that goal.

Let me point you to this, then it might be easier to understand what I want to say.

http://eulenkiste.ch/test/orakel/orakelprojekt/wutzenorakel.html

It is a kind of an online oracle that combines pictures and haikus.
As far as I know there is a set of pictures and a set of haikus and they get mixed in a random way.

I found the pictures and haikus to leave a lot space for intuitive interpretation.
So that I can relate them to the situation I'm in. This is really more flexible than having cards with precise meanings.

Now to what I wanted to add. If you find a way to create the cards in a style that leaves your subconscious room to play with them, it would be way easier to use them as a tool of communication.

[Waldfrau]

Now to what I wanted to add. If you find a way to create the cards in a style that leaves your subconscious room to play with them, it would be way easier to use them as a tool of communication.

That's a great point I haven't thought of, thanks Tana.

I think there are a few different methods to achieve this:
- Using ambigous symbols/pictures (like a red sky could be dawn or dusk).
- Using symbols which don't relate too well to concrete life situations.
- Have a lot of little details so the important ones will stand out for the reader (this is done a lot in the Robin Wood Tarot).

And maybe there should also be a range of cards on the whole scale, I mean some really ambigous ones with a lot of room for inspiration and some very concrete ones for different situations. It's like in the RW you have the lovers, but also the twos in the suits for more concrete readings about how two principles/things interact with each other. I don't want to do it the same way as in the Tarot, but think of having cards on different levels because it would give them balance and a better understanding. F.ex. all of this hunting stuff has deep mystical meaning, but a lot of it is also good advice on real life situations and sometimes you need one more than the other at the moment.

[stardancer]

That's a great point I haven't thought of, thanks Tana.

I think there are a few different methods to achieve this:
- Using ambigous symbols/pictures (like a red sky could be dawn or dusk).
- Using symbols which don't relate too well to concrete life situations.
- Have a lot of little details so the important ones will stand out for the reader (this is done a lot in the Robin Wood Tarot).

And maybe there should also be a range of cards on the whole scale, I mean some really ambigous ones with a lot of room for inspiration and some very concrete ones for different situations. It's like in the RW you have the lovers, but also the twos in the suits for more concrete readings about how two principles/things interact with each other. I don't want to do it the same way as in the Tarot, but think of having cards on different levels because it would give them balance and a better understanding. F.ex. all of this hunting stuff has deep mystical meaning, but a lot of it is also good advice on real life situations and sometimes you need one more than the other at the moment.

I find this to be very interesting. Have you thought anything about positive or negative qualities? Should each card include a scale of interpretation (like trance being both communication with gods and perhaps also escapism), or should there be some cards that are purely good or purely bad/warning you about something?

[Waldfrau]

I find this to be very interesting. Have you thought anything about positive or negative qualities? Should each card include a scale of interpretation (like trance being both communication with gods and perhaps also escapism), or should there be some cards that are purely good or purely bad/warning you about something?

Hmm...I think this will just play out like in any oracle. There are some cards more on the warning side and some more on the good one, but every card has two sides. If you draw the 9 of swords it could mean heavy depression, but also exaggerating one's problems, so the positive side is that you're not in such a bad spot as it looks like. The difference from some other cards is though, that it's definitly a warning card telling you what you do wrong. I'll have to think about which warning cards I put into it, I think every good oracle system needs some clear warning cards.

There's one card we could discuss this problem concretly: I've been definitly warned that I'm taking aim too long and are afraid of letting go of the arrow. Now in the hunting sequence there's this card: 'taking aim'. It could mean that you think thoroughly about your goals and don't waste your arrows in careless shots due to improper aiming. But it could also mean that you hesitate too much, that you loose your prey because you're waiting too long for a better angle at it or that you're too afraid to loose the arrow or hurt the prey in the wrong way in an unlucky shot. Now I could split the card into two, one telling me 'aim properly before you shoot' and one telling me 'get your act done'. I don't know yet. What do you think?

[Waldfrau]

2) There'll be a sequence about Artemis' hunt, which will be structured in a logical way of steps (from preparing for the hunt to the death of the prey). Since in my UPG her hunt is a lot about willpower and purpose, this could be like the suit of the fire element (if I ever find corresponding suits for the other elements).

Here's my first draft of the hunting sequence:

1) Getting ready: This card could feature Artemis getting her bow, arrows and cascet (sp?) from the Kyklopes. Themes: boldness, setting out, armouring, preparation, initiation

2) Seeking: Artemis wandering the forest in patient search. Themes: seeking, patience, orientation, study, quest

3) Stalking/Following: Artemis follows a stag. Themes: patient endurance, purpose, will, hard labour, using knowledge and susceptibility, waiting for the right moment

4) Drawing an Arrow: Artemis reaches into her cascet and draws an arrow. Themes: making a choice, things getting serious

5) Taking Aim: Artemis aiming at the stag in concentration. Themes: utmost tension/concentration, finding the right angle to put a choice into motion, finding the heart of something, having a plan, perfectionism, hesitation

6) Shot: Artemis lets go of the arrow. Themes: finally putting a choice into motion, killing the other possibilities, the right moment, letting go, the arrow is the sacrifice of the hunter, risk, the final decision between success and failure, testing of skill and luck

7) Death: The stag lies on the floor with an arrow in its heart and blood trickling from it. Themes: endings, conclusions, results, sacrifice, accomplishment, success, loss, mourning


I'm still pondering Stardancer's comment.

And I just realized that the hunting sequence is the antithesis of the birth sequence. It's conclusion is death, but both serve life.

[Waldfrau]

I'm still pondering Stardancer's comment.

I think the cards might work as a communication tool or at least as a tool for introspection on the images I've encountered in my spirit journey work. But for that I should create the cards as close to those experiences as possible. Mostly she just shows me things about the hunt. She doesn't tell me straightly what she thinks about my behaviour or my life. F.ex. she didn't tell me 'loss is a part of life, so stop fretting', but just showed me the death of a stag. She talks when I directly ask her, but she doesn't talk much. Maybe she does think I'll understand better by going through the experience of the hunt than being lectured by her. Or maybe it's just her personality, she comes across to me as a bit laconic.

So I think I shouldn't divide the cards into good and bad ones, but keep that part in the eye of the reader. She doesn't evaluate much what I'm doing or what she's showing me, it's me doing the evaluation.


Btw, I realize I'm talking with myself a lot in this thread, but it helps to work out my idea and I find your comments on it very helpful in the progress.

[Waldfrau]

Coming back to this...thank you all for the comments and suggestions! I'm continueing my work over at my blog:

http://waldhexe.wordpress.com/

I welcome further comments and suggestions. And I don't mind if you do them at my blog or here. (You can quote my material here if you want to.)

[Balakirev]

I think it a great idea. 

Beat me to an exact quote.   Really, the tarot should be something that rises out of yourself.  It should be that real to you.

I see a lot of potential in your idea, just play with it a bit more and don't try to force it in a tarot-systemish thingy.  It could be a whole different thing, coherent in itself.

I'm not sure why a non-78 card deck couldn't be called tarot, though.  For that matter, I'm not sure why it must have 4 suits, 4 court cards for each, X many majors and Y many minors.  All that became fixed in the 19th century, but I admit that the difference between tarot decks and oracles is a very blurred one, for me.  And I'm a self-admitted tarot whore, as well as owning a few oracle decks, so I do have some experience with 'em.

That said, I think I see where you're coming from: that Waldfrau shouldn't feel constrained by the approach taken in so many tarot decks.  And I'd agree: I'd especially suggest disregarding the format of Rider-Waite decks, which seems to have become a strait-jacket donned by many tarot publication houses.  Call it tarot, but do whatever you like with it.  It's all tarot, as nobody has any copyright of the definition.

[SunflowerP]

I'm not sure why a non-78 card deck couldn't be called tarot, though.  For that matter, I'm not sure why it must have 4 suits, 4 court cards for each, X many majors and Y many minors.  All that became fixed in the 19th century, but I admit that the difference between tarot decks and oracles is a very blurred one, for me.
<snip>
It's all tarot, as nobody has any copyright of the definition.

And I am not sure what the point is in using the word "tarot" as if it was simply a synonym for "cartomancy".  Words mean things; tarot has a specific history as a subset of "cards used for games and/or cartomancy".

I'm not at all rigid about, "78 cards, no more and no less, organized in exactly thus-and-so way" (if I were, I'd have to start by discounting Major Arcana decks for having only 22 cards).  There are many ways that tarot could be tweaked that don't fit that rigid pattern, but it would still be tarot.  But it'd have to be a matter of variation on the theme (or body of themes) that constitute "tarot" in the historic sense.

It's hard to express that in theoretical terms; in theory, someone could make so many adaptations that I might consider the result tarot-derived but not tarot.  In practice, I've never encountered anything that came close to that borderline - everything I've seen is either clearly part of the overall body of tarot, or is a cartomantic deck/system clearly not derived from that body.  (The closest thing I can think of to "borderline" is the 52-card playing card deck - but, contrary to popular belief, it's not a descendant of tarot; its earliest known appearances predate the earliest known references to tarot-style cards, and it's likely ancestral rather than descended.)

Sunflower

[Waldfrau]

Since my storylines are totally different from the Tarot, I decided to call it an oracle. (You can read about the storylines in my blog, then you'll see they have really nothing to do with the Major Arcana or any of the suits.) At the moment my working title is "Oracle of the Wild Woman", but the "Wild Woman"-part could change, the oracle-part not.

(Thanks Sunflower)

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