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Author Topic: Creating my own Tarot deck?  (Read 7932 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #15: November 03, 2009, 07:24:33 am »

I'm not sure why a non-78 card deck couldn't be called tarot, though.  For that matter, I'm not sure why it must have 4 suits, 4 court cards for each, X many majors and Y many minors.  All that became fixed in the 19th century, but I admit that the difference between tarot decks and oracles is a very blurred one, for me.  And I'm a self-admitted tarot whore, as well as owning a few oracle decks, so I do have some experience with 'em. Smiley

That said, I think I see where you're coming from: that Waldfrau shouldn't feel constrained by the approach taken in so many tarot decks.  And I'd agree: I'd especially suggest disregarding the format of Rider-Waite decks, which seems to have become a strait-jacket donned by many tarot publication houses.  Call it tarot, but do whatever you like with it.  It's all tarot, as nobody has any copyright of the definition.


Well, that's profoundly unhelpful to the novice, though.

I mean, I don't know if Waldfrau is planning publication of her deck.  But say for example she is.  And ShinyNewPagan(tm) goes and buys that and a tarot book.

Poor kid is gonna be damn confused and feel ripped off.

If it's not the same system, call it something else.  Words and labels DO have meaning, and just stretching a label to cover things it really shouldn't cover doesn't aid in communication - it hinders it.
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Waldfrau
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« Reply #16: November 03, 2009, 10:25:58 am »

I mean, I don't know if Waldfrau is planning publication of her deck.  But say for example she is.  And ShinyNewPagan(tm) goes and buys that and a tarot book.

Poor kid is gonna be damn confused and feel ripped off.

If it's not the same system, call it something else.  Words and labels DO have meaning, and just stretching a label to cover things it really shouldn't cover doesn't aid in communication - it hinders it.
Not even near of dreaming about publication really. To be honest, I'm just doing it to get my experiences into some shape, to have something later, that will remind me of them and deepen my path.

I also think that a developed own idea is much more powerful for oracular work than a watered down system from somebody else.
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HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #17: November 03, 2009, 01:09:43 pm »

Not even near of dreaming about publication really. To be honest, I'm just doing it to get my experiences into some shape, to have something later, that will remind me of them and deepen my path.

I also think that a developed own idea is much more powerful for oracular work than a watered down system from somebody else.

*nods* I was mostly using the publication as example.

And I agree - if what you're looking for is a truly personal system, unless tarot really resonates with you to begin with coming up with your own system has a lot of power to it.
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« Reply #18: November 03, 2009, 10:54:49 pm »




I can't really help you on the creative end - I've been trying to create my own Tarot for 20 years but I am not, by any definition of the word, an artist.

However, I did see this on another forum I visit, and I think it's awesome:

Card blanks - suitable for printers
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« Reply #19: November 04, 2009, 12:43:56 am »


I want.

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« Reply #20: November 04, 2009, 09:29:40 am »

Well, that's profoundly unhelpful to the novice, though.

I mean, I don't know if Waldfrau is planning publication of her deck.  But say for example she is.  And ShinyNewPagan(tm) goes and buys that and a tarot book.

Poor kid is gonna be damn confused and feel ripped off.

My impression from the first post is that Waldfrau intended this tarot for personal use.  Where did that post note otherwise?  And where did it state that the deck, if published, was going to be pointed squarely at ShinyNewPagan?  Like hundreds of other Rider-Waite clones and near-clones?  Is there something inherently wrong with doing a tarot deck that, like the Haindl, Javan, Tarot of Transformation or William Blake decks, is aimed at someone who wants to work for a genuinely different experience?

Quote
If it's not the same system, call it something else.  Words and labels DO have meaning, and just stretching a label to cover things it really shouldn't cover doesn't aid in communication - it hinders it.

Except that only modern custom and publishers have defined the tarot as 78 cards, 22 majors, 4 suits of minors with 4 court cards each, each major exactly known according to Rider-Waite and depicted in a specific order (unless you're imitating the Crowley-Harris Thoth deck, in which case you can swap a few around), etc.  It's not even consistently applied: modern reproductions of tarot decks from the Renaissance Italian states that sell quite well have as many as 40 majors and as few as 12, displaying virtues, vices, local architectural masterpieces, etc.

So what we're left with is this: if you're a 17th century Italian artist being commissioned to a deck, you can make it to order for whatever your patron wishes, as far as deck size, numbers of majors and minors, their order, etc.  But if you're a modern artist, you have to do 78 cards, 22 majors, they must follow in a certain order, etc.  Both are considered legit tarot, and sold as such.  I have some trouble with this.

Like you, I'm a great believer in using appropriate words, because otherwise we debase communications.  But in this case we're dealing with a term that's commercially defined and inconsistently applied even by those who perpetuate it.  That's why I prefer a broader definition of tarot, one that allows me to account for the Italian States decks, as well as modern decks that don't endlessly simply offer new Rider-Waite decks in different dress-up.
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« Reply #21: November 04, 2009, 09:34:36 am »

Like you, I'm a great believer in using appropriate words, because otherwise we debase communications.  But in this case we're dealing with a term that's commercially defined and inconsistently applied even by those who perpetuate it.  That's why I prefer a broader definition of tarot, one that allows me to account for the Italian States decks, as well as modern decks that don't endlessly simply offer new Rider-Waite decks in different dress-up.

But that does NOT mean that anything that's a divination system built on cards is tarot, though.  THAT is my argument.  And that seemed to be what you were saying to start off.
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« Reply #22: November 04, 2009, 10:18:08 pm »

My impression from the first post is that Waldfrau intended this tarot for personal use.
And that she intended this thread for discussion of that particular deck, so I've posted my (long) reply to you in its own thread, so that our discussion (and its implications for wider discussion) don't derail that.

That's not a reprimand to anyone; I'm as guilty as anyone else of the derailment that's already occurred.

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« Reply #23: November 04, 2009, 10:31:20 pm »

And that she intended this thread for discussion of that particular deck, so I've posted my (long) reply to you in its own thread, so that our discussion (and its implications for wider discussion) don't derail that.
And moved several recent posts that were more relevant here, than there.  It's the first time I've done that so it didn't quite work like I would have liked; I hope people aren't too confused by it.  (Shad, you're pretty involved in this one; if you think you can do things to improve it, please do.)

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