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Question: Are there people who are unable to do magic -- not from lack of training or knowledge -- but from natural inability?
Yes, somre people are unable to do magic
No, everyone can do magic
Other [Please Explain]

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Author Topic: Do Muggles Really Exist?  (Read 11720 times)
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« Reply #15: April 26, 2009, 07:20:03 am »

Was it any form of magic? Nope. just plain work. I simply think that magic is just a means of explaining the results of ordinary human work.

My quibble with your example is that you haven't described anything that I think most people would classify as "magic" as opposed to "ordinary human work".  So...  No, the find wasn't magic, because you didn't do any.

That said, I do agree that sometimes the term gets overused and results get attributed to it that seem just as likely to be the result of ordinary human work or even just random events.  I'm not personally convinced that means it doesn't exist at all, but I can see why you would feel that way.

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In other words I don't feel that magic is real. There..I've said it. Let the hatred and venom commence.

Sorry to disappoint, but I doubt you're going to get a lot of hatred and venom over that statement at this forum.  Not because we don't have a lot of members who do believe in magic, but because this just doesn't tend to be much of a hot-button topic here.  Shrug.
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« Reply #16: April 26, 2009, 12:40:29 pm »


Sorry to disappoint, but I doubt you're going to get a lot of hatred and venom over that statement at this forum.  Not because we don't have a lot of members who do believe in magic, but because this just doesn't tend to be much of a hot-button topic here.  Shrug.

I believe magic is possible - but sometimes I feel I'm the muggle...  Undecided

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« Reply #17: April 26, 2009, 03:53:54 pm »

Sorry to disappoint, but I doubt you're going to get a lot of hatred and venom over that statement at this forum.  Not because we don't have a lot of members who do believe in magic, but because this just doesn't tend to be much of a hot-button topic here.  Shrug.

I was not expecting hatred but I have encountered situations where I voiced an opinion that went contrary to popular belief and was practically boiled in oil over it.
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« Reply #18: April 26, 2009, 04:30:35 pm »

My quibble with your example is that you haven't described anything that I think most people would classify as "magic" as opposed to "ordinary human work".  So...  No, the find wasn't magic, because you didn't do any.

I'm going to agree with Star here and say what you described would not be magic. Divine influence, if one were so inclined to believe in it, perhaps. But not magic. Even more so if no one actually did a spell.
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« Reply #19: April 26, 2009, 04:54:43 pm »

Do you think such people exist? Why or why not?

I voted yes because I think that there are people out their that just can't for the life of them put any energy into doing such things (myself possibly being included)
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« Reply #20: April 30, 2009, 03:28:45 pm »

Most of the modern books on magic I've read claim that magic is something anyone can do -- some claim even without any training, knowledge, or practice. But is this true? I can't carry a tune in a bucket. Other people can't see certain colors. Why couldn't there be people who simply cannot do magic? Do you think such people exist? Why or why not?

While some are born to run, there are babes born who may never even walk.  While I believe this is very sad, it is still true.  As far as magic, in the strictest meaning, I believe most folks are "Muggles."  Maybe, Muggles rule...

As far as magic in the broader sense, most anyone can, even unwittingly, dabble in it.  So much science, as we know it today, was once considered "magic."  At our family's bonfires, science certainly comes into play with 'fire magic.'  Would we want chemicals in the hands of children and the mentally impaired?  Of course not, so there is certainly plenty of skill (and responsibility!) involved.  With herbs and lotions and potions this is also true.  The truest magics involve, from what I have come to understand, hard science, hard work, and the blessings of the Divinities.

For some, this is just not for them or their families' lifestyles.  As there are many that just do not have the talent, they seem to be quite content.  For those of us that strive to do more, to do better, and to serve well, we, too, find our own contentment complete.  I think there is certainly room for all of us; Muggles, muddlers (myself included) and Masters.   
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« Reply #21: April 30, 2009, 04:34:23 pm »

Most of the modern books on magic I've read claim that magic is something anyone can do -- some claim even without any training, knowledge, or practice. But is this true? I can't carry a tune in a bucket. Other people can't see certain colors. Why couldn't there be people who simply cannot do magic? Do you think such people exist? Why or why not?

Excellent topic. After some thought, I had to choose 'Other', because my answer was both yes and no. Warning: Major UPG and personal theories ahead.

As a scientist type of person, I believe that there isn't a true paranormal property to what we term as magic. That is to say, it is not abnormal. It's normal, it's scientific, it's explainable - we just don't have the tools to do it yet. That leaves the understanding of such things to those who have the ability to see, handle, or in some way interact with those things which science cannot explain or quantify. Each of us who do this, we each have a different way of interacting, and so we may see the same event and come to different conclusions.

I believe that humans, in general, are born with some ability to access this "magic" in some manner. Each different, of course. But I also believe that, just like with the five senses (sight, smell, taste, touch, sound), you can be born without it, or lose it later if it is unused. In the field of linguistics, it is known that if a child does not learn a particular language by the age of puberty, it will most likely never be fluent in that language, or may not be able to learn it at all beyond the most rudimentary necessities for communication. (I'd supply the source, but it was in a book that I read in a linguistic course that I have completely forgotten the name of.) From general experience and hearsay, I can also say that in deaf children, if they do not learn the language of sound (via hearing aids or cochlear implants) before puberty, they cannot learn it without massive effort. I believe that the ability to interact with what we call magic, can be grown or lost in manners similiar to our known five senses and other brain functions.

Part of the basis of this theory of mine is that I believe this ability may be treated just as a sense would be - sight, for example. If a person has the ability to see spirits, perhaps she is simply capable of seeing in a range of frequencies in which the spirits exist. Who is to say that the "visible range of the spectra" is the ONLY range that humans developed the ability to see in? Why could some of us not develop the ability to see in infrared? Ultraviolet? "Spirit Zone"? Telepathy could be explained as an extension of the sound sense - or another sense entirely that functions on similar principles as hearing, but using different frequencies and method of transmission. Who knows?

And here ends my theory. I really haven't worked on it very much, it's just a collection of ... things I've experienced, a few random bits of academic facts, some hearsay, and a rather sketchy hypothesis.
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« Reply #22: April 30, 2009, 04:55:40 pm »

Most of the modern books on magic I've read claim that magic is something anyone can do -- some claim even without any training, knowledge, or practice. But is this true? I can't carry a tune in a bucket. Other people can't see certain colors. Why couldn't there be people who simply cannot do magic? Do you think such people exist? Why or why not?
Yay i get to be the counter argument. I voted no, not everyone can do it. I think a lot of things have a factor in it. Think of it as bersitis of magick. If you don't use it then you lose it. Given that the major populace is taught to not believe in magick and that it is evil or wrong, most people have an aversion to it. When left neglected, like anything, it leaves you.

Along with this i think it is a trait certain people are born with and others aren't. Like fast growing hair, double jointedness, and talent. Talent in itself is a form of magick in my opinion.

As for the books 'teaching' people magick. Well I own a library to crush a person and I haven't found one that teaches you how to use magick so much as it teaches you about magick and techniques used in magick. A magick user a book does not make. A lot of that is to pull a persons attention in and tempt them in order to make sales. It's called good marketing.

As for singing, lol singing IS a physical ability that CAN be taught. magick is a spiritual energy thing that is not physcal. Lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Cheesy
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« Reply #23: April 30, 2009, 05:15:09 pm »

But I also believe that, just like with the five senses (sight, smell, taste, touch, sound), you can be born without it...

That's pretty close to what I believe.
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« Reply #24: April 30, 2009, 06:29:23 pm »

That's pretty close to what I believe.

My ex-husband was a complete magical null. 
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« Reply #25: May 01, 2009, 12:18:20 pm »

That's pretty close to what I believe.

*nod*

To quantify further my theory, I think that it is, at this time, extremely difficult to judge the commonality of this ability to interact with magic in humans, for several reasons. The most obvious is that due to the atmosphere of the cultures that exist at this time, most of those who have true ability are well-hidden, and when questioned on the subject, many will lie and say they do not have any, in order to protect themselves and their families from judgement. Another reason is that... well, crackpots exist. Some so-called "psychics", "ghost hunters", etc. are obvious crackpots, but there are many of them which are not so obvious, and it will naturally be difficult to judge true ability or tricks in those cases.

I also believe (though I have no resources to back this up), that it is actually more common to be born with an ability, and actually lose it, than it is to be born without one. I also believe that it is possible - and common - to be born with an ability, and be unable to use it due to a lack of some... *shrug* part? As if a person had been born with all the equipment for hearing - except for the nerves in the inner ear. Without the nerves, sound cannot be transmitted from the ear to the brain. This type of inability to interact with the magic is, in my opinion, the most likely cause of skipping a person or two in passing down the genes for this ability. This would be most likely to be tested in families with a long history of a particular ability, but again, considering the tendency of people to hide their abilities, it is not particularly examinable at this time.

So I really cannot say how common the real-world "Muggles" are. They may be insanely common, or they may be uncommon. I also believe in the evolutionary theory, and I am at this point trying to apply the evolutionary theory to my little theory, but the process is not complete. Heh.
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« Reply #26: May 01, 2009, 01:01:46 pm »

Some so-called "psychics", "ghost hunters", etc. are obvious crackpots, but there are many of them which are not so obvious, and it will naturally be difficult to judge true ability or tricks in those cases.

A nitpick:  I wouldn't actually put ghost hunters in the same category as what we're talking about here, for the simple reason that they don't appear to be claiming to use any psychic powers or magic or anything in the first place.  Pretty much all the ghost hunters I've run into (hi, Bob!) use scientific instruments and cameras and tape recorders and things to record things like temperature changes, EM fields, sounds, images, etc. in an attempt to capture evidence of a ghost.  There's still plenty of room for "crackpot" in there, of course (and plenty of room for responsible investigating too), but that's something that doesn't necessarily require that one claim to have any particular powers.

(As to the original question, I didn't answer because I honestly haven't got the faintest idea.  Grin )
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« Reply #27: May 01, 2009, 01:22:57 pm »

A nitpick:  I wouldn't actually put ghost hunters in the same category as what we're talking about here, for the simple reason that they don't appear to be claiming to use any psychic powers or magic or anything in the first place.  Pretty much all the ghost hunters I've run into (hi, Bob!) use scientific instruments and cameras and tape recorders and things to record things like temperature changes, EM fields, sounds, images, etc. in an attempt to capture evidence of a ghost.  There's still plenty of room for "crackpot" in there, of course (and plenty of room for responsible investigating too), but that's something that doesn't necessarily require that one claim to have any particular powers.

Point taken, Star... I was casting around wildly for another term besides psychic, and that was the only one I could come up with. (It's still early here.) You're right - ghost hunters tend to use equipment. I was thinking of a couple that I'd heard of that only used their 'psychic' powers to speak to ghosts. I can't for the life of me remember their names - I probably saw it on some Discovery or History Channel show somewhere. My memory is a pathetic sieve.

And, yes, scientific investigating has its place in spirit searching. It's simply that when one hears of these, they tend to be on TV shows, and one starts thinking, is that real or staged? (More often staged than real, I think.)
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« Reply #28: May 01, 2009, 02:07:55 pm »

I was thinking of a couple that I'd heard of that only used their 'psychic' powers to speak to ghosts. I can't for the life of me remember their names - I probably saw it on some Discovery or History Channel show somewhere. My memory is a pathetic sieve.

Mediums or conduits. I think you are thinking of "mediums" though, as that's the one I see most commonly used.
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« Reply #29: May 01, 2009, 03:03:47 pm »

Point taken, Star... I was casting around wildly for another term besides psychic, and that was the only one I could come up with. (It's still early here.) You're right - ghost hunters tend to use equipment. I was thinking of a couple that I'd heard of that only used their 'psychic' powers to speak to ghosts. I can't for the life of me remember their names - I probably saw it on some Discovery or History Channel show somewhere. My memory is a pathetic sieve.

And, yes, scientific investigating has its place in spirit searching. It's simply that when one hears of these, they tend to be on TV shows, and one starts thinking, is that real or staged? (More often staged than real, I think.)
I don't put mediums/psychic's  in the same category as magic (just my opinion). To be honest, I'm not sure how much I believe in psychic powers, but I do believe that some people have almost another sense regarding the world around them.  I think there are people who honestly have this ability and some who are full of it.  But again, I separate that from the term magic.  Just my personal views of it. 

That being said, I went to an energy workshop and book signing for Michelle Ballenger this weekend and found her fascinating.  I'd never heard of her before and ended up going with some friends who follower her.  I picked up two of her books and look forward to finding the time to read them. 
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