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Author Topic: Religious Divorce  (Read 11657 times)
BGMarc
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« Reply #15: May 11, 2009, 05:35:59 pm »

I think a one year 'trial' is a fabulous idea.

Yes. I think the opportunity to evolve your vows to each other and the basis of the marriage contract (or what ever you want to call it) at well-established points is also very healthy for the relationship. The no fault nature of the separation is also attractive, as the people I have encountered who follow this practice are very strong on not simply assuming that the other person will sign up for the next part of the story.
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« Reply #16: May 11, 2009, 05:56:48 pm »

I got my divorce when I was living in TN and it is very easy to get one there, if you're not going to be fighting over custody and property. Since I didn't have any kids, all I had to do was file with a lawyer (which wasn't expensive), wait three months, then go before the judge and sign papers.

Getting married in TN is also very easy: no blood test and no waiting period. You can apply for a marriage license then turn right around and get married, which is what my present husband and I did.

The one bad thing about TN is that it is a community property state, so what was mine was also my ex's. We didn't fight over property in the divorce. He'd already pawned/sold my books, CDs, movies, jewelry, TV, stereo, etc. for his drug money. And he had every legal right to do so, even when things belonged to me years before we got married. I found that out when he pawned the heirloom ring that I'd received from my grandmother, who'd received it from her first husband who was killed in World War One. My main consulation with that was that when I went to the pawn shop to buy my ring back I saw that my ex had been gyped by the pawnshop. He olny got $100 for it, when I'd had it appraised at over $1000. Thank the Goddess I could afford to buy it back.

Here the divorce is very easy, it is the seperation agreement that spells out everything (division, spousal and/or child support, etc).  There is also a big difference between what you are entitled to and what you agree to.  Even though we had seperate things (bank accounts, debt, RRSPs, etc) it would have all been considered common.  It was us that decided to keep what was ours.  Maybe the fact that she wanted to keep the seperate bank accounts should have clued me in that she didn't really want to get married.

It could have gotten messy, with me going after her property and her going after my pension but it just wasn't worth the effort.
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« Reply #17: May 11, 2009, 06:19:31 pm »

My question is this:  do any of your religions have rituals associated with divorce?  If so what are they?  What useful purpose (if any) do you think divorce rituals serve?

Conversation in the thread reminded me: we didn't do a ritual that involved my ex-husband when we divorced (our marriage was also very non-religious, at his request, and religion was one of the points that was pushing us apart, in the sense that I had one and was making more commitments to it. Only one of the points, mind you, and it's not like I didn't warn him, but that's a whole other story.)

Anyway, after he moved out, I put together a ritual that I found very helpful. As a wedding present, a friend who's a jewelrymaker and another good friend had given me a set of jewelry (three necklaces and earrings: they could be worn separately or in combination) as a wedding present. I invited the jewelrymaking friend (the other was not local), and three of my groupmates to rededicate the jewelry for specific things they thought I needed right then. It was very effective, and every time I've worn them since, that focus has lingered.

(The meal after it was also foods the ex hated and I liked, which was very appropriate.)
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« Reply #18: May 11, 2009, 08:19:19 pm »

I found it!  It's called a Handparting and it's in one of my least favorite books Paganism an introduction to earth-centered religions by Joyce & River Higginbotham.  That was actually what gave me the idea to do a letting go ritual.  The book isn't bad, I just find that they state a lot of their opinions as fact and it was very confusing to me when I first started learning about Paganism.
IIRC, Raymond Buckland was the first to provide a handparting ritual; there's a Seax-Wica one in The Tree, which puts it pretty early (1974) in the history of pubished rituals.  I'm pretty sure - but can't check for certain since I don't own a copy - there's a more "mainstream" Wicca one in Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft (AKA "Bucky's Big Blue"), but that's quite a bit later ('86, according to Wikipedia, but it's marked as "needs citation") so it's not as groundbreaking chronologically speaking; OTOH, later examples may well either be reproductions of that one or modeled on it.  Buckland, and the Big Blue book especially, was majorly influential on exoteric/Eclectic Wiccan practice, and in turn on "generic" (i.e. Wiccish) neoPaganism.

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« Reply #19: May 11, 2009, 11:10:56 pm »

Anyway, after he moved out, I put together a ritual that I found very helpful. As a wedding present, a friend who's a jewelrymaker and another good friend had given me a set of jewelry (three necklaces and earrings: they could be worn separately or in combination) as a wedding present. I invited the jewelrymaking friend (the other was not local), and three of my groupmates to rededicate the jewelry for specific things they thought I needed right then. It was very effective, and every time I've worn them since, that focus has lingered.
What a great idea.

(The meal after it was also foods the ex hated and I liked, which was very appropriate.)
This made me giggle because my X is allergic to garlic and after my ritual I had baked garlic with brie on crackers.  I felt a bit passive aggressive, but it was delicious.

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« Reply #20: May 12, 2009, 07:08:25 pm »

This made me giggle because my X is allergic to garlic and after my ritual I had baked garlic with brie on crackers.  I felt a bit passive aggressive, but it was delicious.
I hadn't remembered it until just now, since it wasn't formalized, and, nearly three years later, it's been quite a while since it came up.  But when I first split from my ex-hubby, I ate things like sour cream (which he's probably allergic to) and shellfish (which he just plain doesn't like) with particular gusto.  I don't know if he did the same with bananas, but he could have, and it probably would have been emotionally healthy/healing if he did.

Not that any of those things were completely off our menus when we were together, just that they were "solo" foods, not things we ate together, and in some cases had conditions/restrictions - if he was going to eat a banana, or if I was going to eat sour cream, we'd best make sure we'd had all the kisses we'd need beforehand, because there weren't going to be any more until the potential for second-hand effects had worn off.

Being conscious of "Hey, I can eat this all I want, whenever I want!" anytime I was eating something he had significant issues with was really helpful to me in moving forward.

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« Reply #21: May 19, 2009, 03:49:37 pm »

I'd love to hear more about this too.  In one of the books I read recently (and I've read so many I can't remember which one), I remember mention of a pagan divorce ritual.  It was like a reversal of an handfasting (I'll see if I can find it).  I remember thinking what a great idea it is to have a spiritual ending to a marriage.  My marriage was so easy to do, but the divorce took almost a year, lawyers and more money than I care to think about.  It left me feeling angry and bitter.  I did make up my own personal ritual on the one year divorceiversary which included writing down my feelings, burning them and reading a poem I'd written.  For me, it was very cleansing and I really have felt better since.  I wish I could have done it with my X or that he were able to do something similar so he too could let go and move forward.



Okay, I had to read this a couple of times.  At first I thought you wished you could have burned your ex. Shocked  Maybe it's because I often wish to do something like that to my (wish he were ex) husband.  Wink
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« Reply #22: May 19, 2009, 04:47:15 pm »

Okay, I had to read this a couple of times.  At first I thought you wished you could have burned your ex. Shocked  Maybe it's because I often wish to do something like that to my (wish he were ex) husband.  Wink
Baw haw haw...

I didn't want to burn him or harm him, but I did want to do a banishing spell and make him just disappear.  Actually, I still do unfortunately, he is the father of my children, so I will have to deal with him civilly for a few more years.   
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« Reply #23: May 19, 2009, 05:27:39 pm »

Baw haw haw...

I didn't want to burn him or harm him, but I did want to do a banishing spell and make him just disappear.  Actually, I still do unfortunately, he is the father of my children, so I will have to deal with him civilly for a few more years.   

A year after I got divorced my uncle told me that it takes 2 years to get over being angry in a divorce situation.  I asked him if that was 2 years after the divorce, or 2 years after the kids are grown and I didn't see him every other weekend.  Grin
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« Reply #24: May 19, 2009, 07:43:24 pm »

A year after I got divorced my uncle told me that it takes 2 years to get over being angry in a divorce situation.  I asked him if that was 2 years after the divorce, or 2 years after the kids are grown and I didn't see him every other weekend.  Grin

I've heard the quote that it takes about half the length of time you were in the relationship. (And at least for relationships less than about a decade, this seems to be true in my experience.)

I was involved with my ex-husband for 6 years, and married for 4, and have been divorced for 3 and change. There was a real shift in the last six months from having continuing strong emotions about some pieces of it to now being "Eh. I move on, I luxuriate in my success, and don't worry about him." Even emailing him a piece of news he needed to know (death of his former boss's wife: she worked for the school I work for when I started, which is how I knew) wasn't too painful.

(though I have not yet replied to his "So, how are things with you?" response to that email after he thanked me for letting him know.)
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« Reply #25: May 20, 2009, 12:45:27 am »

When Jews get a civil divorce, they may also get a religious divorce.  If you are Orthodox, you must have the religious divorce before you are allowed to marry again in the synagogue.  Traditionally, this consisted of the man giving a get (divorce contract to his wife).  Women could not initiate religious divorce. 


Sperran

Couple of corrections.

Women can petition the beit din to compel the man to issue a get. Or in New York, a get can be a requirement of completion of a civil divorce. There is also the Tony Soprano method.

Only women need a get to re-marry.
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« Reply #26: May 20, 2009, 01:22:30 am »

I've heard the quote that it takes about half the length of time you were in the relationship. (And at least for relationships less than about a decade, this seems to be true in my experience.)

I was involved with my ex-husband for 6 years, and married for 4, and have been divorced for 3 and change. There was a real shift in the last six months from having continuing strong emotions about some pieces of it to now being "Eh. I move on, I luxuriate in my success, and don't worry about him." Even emailing him a piece of news he needed to know (death of his former boss's wife: she worked for the school I work for when I started, which is how I knew) wasn't too painful.

(though I have not yet replied to his "So, how are things with you?" response to that email after he thanked me for letting him know.)
I was with my X for 19 years (1/2 of my life).  I have to say that the marriage was over eight years before the divorce so I resolved a lot of my anger issues during that time.  Though little things touch me off, I'm really not angry or bitter anymore and I actually feel sorry for him.  He's made many choices not to move forward and I really have.  I'm honestly very, very happy and content.  The ritual I did helped a lot and finding my spiritual side that had been buried deep for 19 years was like an awakening.
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« Reply #27: May 20, 2009, 01:24:50 am »

Couple of corrections.

Women can petition the beit din to compel the man to issue a get. Or in New York, a get can be a requirement of completion of a civil divorce. There is also the Tony Soprano method.

Only women need a get to re-marry.
Catholics need to get an annulment in order remarry in the church.  It's nearly impossible to get one, so once you divorce, it's rare that the Catholic church will allow you to marry again (or acknowledge a marriage outside the church).
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« Reply #28: May 20, 2009, 08:35:45 am »

Couple of corrections.

Women can petition the beit din to compel the man to issue a get. Or in New York, a get can be a requirement of completion of a civil divorce. There is also the Tony Soprano method.

Only women need a get to re-marry.

It is true that only women need a get to become remarried; you are correct that I didn't make that clear.  Can a beit din actually compel a man to issue a get?  I have heard of cases where the beit din recommends (and essentially tries to shame) a man into issuing a get, but did not force him to do so.  I was under the impression that a beit din could not compel someone to issue a get; is it just a rarely used power?  I know it is a big problem in Israel, where men refuse to issue a get out of spite and their wives are unable to get remarried since the Orthodox rabbinate governs marriage there.

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« Reply #29: May 20, 2009, 08:37:44 am »

Catholics need to get an annulment in order remarry in the church.  It's nearly impossible to get one, so once you divorce, it's rare that the Catholic church will allow you to marry again (or acknowledge a marriage outside the church).

I think it is much easier than it used to be, but I get the impression how easy it is might depend partly on how well your diocese facilitates the process.

Sperran
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