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Author Topic: Fluffy Bunnies and Fundies  (Read 27452 times)
Black0lSun
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« Topic Start: May 24, 2009, 01:49:53 pm »


Fluffy bunnies and fundamentalists... Why not get right down to it?

So Witches, eclectics, Wiccans, and other neo-pagans all seem to have this problem of people not getting their facts straight. Some teenager, or hippy sees sparkles and pretty colors and wants to claim it for their own. That's one of the images I get when I see the phrase fluffy bunny.
I still don't completely understand what fluffy bunny is supposed to mean, and honestly it doesn't really matter to me, but I'm using it in here as an example of the "extremes" that the neo-pagan society has to deal with.

Fundamentalists: People who take their scriptures and bibles literally, will deny that a baseball is flying toward their face if the preacher says it's not there, and ultimately won't listen to the people telling them to duck. That's the picture I get. Not exactly the whole truth, but hey it's an example Smiley. Christians have to put up with that extreme.


Let's all play dodge ball!
Just kidding.


I think we should acknowledge the things we have in common. Then understand that no one is perfect, and we're all here to live and learn. The idea that someone might have that they need to step in someones way never makes any sense.
So what do we do? Ignore, and put up with the extremes, and problems that come with them? Is there another approach to lose the hate and rigidity? Somehow somewhere we're going to start sharing, and be open about our ideals, and beliefs. Hopefully commercialism won't beat us to it.

This is the end of my preaching. I had more ideas to put into this topic but right when I got to the last freaking paragraph I had a damn brain fart... So.. Irritating. Well, ideas?
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« Reply #1: May 24, 2009, 03:52:42 pm »

Some teenager, or hippy sees sparkles and pretty colors and wants to claim it for their own. That's one of the images I get when I see the phrase fluffy bunny.
I still don't completely understand what fluffy bunny is supposed to mean, and honestly it doesn't really matter to me, but I'm using it in here as an example of the "extremes" that the neo-pagan society has to deal with.

I don't see the problem either.

Some people aren't cut out for places I take my Craft
and I think its nice they have the option of religious communities for them to be in other than mine.



Its like this (if I can draw you a picture to illustrate) a couple days ago Steve Martin appeared on "American Idol" TV program playing his banjo.
My husband has been listening to Mr. Martin's new CD for a few weeks but that doesn't mean we wouldn't have enjoyed seeing him perform one of his tunes on TV.
 
Unfortunately, watching "American Idol" just isn't something that comes natural to us (perhaps a limitation of our own) and we completely forgot about it until the show was over.
So, we turned to the internet to see if any one posted Mr. Martin's performance on line.

That's when my husband found a guy comment that he really liked Steve Martin's performance earlier that night, recorded it off the TV, and was playing it right now.

Well, for a few seconds, seeing that said really frustrated my husband because he'd been listening to the Steve Martin's new tunes for at least two weeks and still hadn't been able to figure them out well enough to play them

but then he realized that by that fellow saying he was "playing the tune", the guy was saying he was playing his recording of the tune
and not actually playing the tune on his banjo, as my husband's goal was.

Chances are for most people just listening to a tune is as deep as they'll ever get and it might never occur to them that there's a deeper place to be with it.

Fine.

« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 03:56:55 pm by macushla, Reason: for spelling errors because correct spelling seems to trump content for some folks reading these forums » Logged
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« Reply #2: May 25, 2009, 11:54:08 pm »

I think we should acknowledge the things we have in common. Then understand that no one is perfect, and we're all here to live and learn.

Is there another approach to lose the hate and rigidity? Somehow somewhere we're going to start sharing, and be open about our ideals, and beliefs.

I definitely agree with you. There are an infinite number of ways to isolate certain groups rather than have dialogues with them. We can keep saying that certain people--from fluff bunnies to fundamentalists to whomever you can think of--are simply uneducated or bigoted and ignore them, or we can try to find more constructive ways to deal with our differences.

I think much of the rub comes when people try to follow through with these constructive ways--the various types of sharing such as discussion, dialogue, and debate--and those on the other side are not receptive. In the end, not everyone is willing to hear what others have to say.

But if I'm understanding you, that's beside the point. The real point is that we try to branch out, talk with people from many perspectives, and reach some sort of agreement or understanding. Whether it works will depend on the circumstance, but if we keep trying, then it's bound to work at least occasionally.
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« Reply #3: May 26, 2009, 01:01:25 am »

In the end, not everyone is willing to hear what others have to say.

At least in the way that I see it used here, this is at the heart of the bunies fluffiness. It's not the ignorance that is a problem it's the willful ignorance.
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« Reply #4: May 26, 2009, 05:14:37 am »

Fluffy bunnies and fundamentalists... Why not get right down to it?


I think we should acknowledge the things we have in common. Then understand that no one is perfect, and we're all here to live and learn. The idea that someone might have that they need to step in someones way never makes any sense.
So what do we do? Ignore, and put up with the extremes, and problems that come with them? Is there another approach to lose the hate and rigidity? Somehow somewhere we're going to start sharing, and be open about our ideals, and beliefs. Hopefully commercialism won't beat us to it.


mhh... fundamentalists are difficult to handle.
But the only think (in my opinion) you can do is to try is the dialouge with them.
Primary to understand, why they thinking such an extreme modality
and esspecially, why this person, who stands face to face with you became a fundamentalist.
and then you have to find a basic for the dialouge. This isn´t very simple but it works sometimes.

Fluffybunnies are nice.  Wink
and often very young and naive, and sometimes a little bit annoying. But they (often) aren´t stupid.
And I think, we should have patience with them and should take their Problems an teir Persons seriously, even though this problems seems to be foolish. We have the experience to handle it. And we (should) have the serenity to give them a helping hand, if they want.
We all began to learn anytime and should not forget the helping hands we´ve got (or those, which we had hoped for)


LG
Cara

[I hope, I didn´t misunderstand the topic Smiley ]
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Black0lSun
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« Reply #5: May 26, 2009, 04:24:32 pm »

[I hope, I didn´t misunderstand the topic Smiley ]

Nah your fine.
...
There is never a lack of ignorance in anything. Especially, like you said Marc, willful ignorance. I'm wondering if this is keeping the pagan community back. I don't want to sound assuming, but there should be a way for recognition of what you all really stand for and not the glitter that other's take Wicca etc. as. Religion is separate from the state, and government. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. No matter how hard others might try to push you back we all have rights. We set ourselves up for failure when we think no one will listen. We just need a way of expression that isn't too detailed to fog over our intentions.
I'm feeling revolution, but these are just ideas.. It's amazing the response you can sometimes get when you open yourself fully to people.
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« Reply #6: May 26, 2009, 05:08:08 pm »

.. It's amazing the response you can sometimes get when you open yourself fully to people.

Keep in mind that you are opening yourself fully to people because you feel the need to.

How they react isn't your problem any more than you needing to present something for them to react to is their problem.

Chances are that they're just as equally self absorbed into their own realities and couldn't care less how you feel.
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« Reply #7: May 26, 2009, 06:25:50 pm »

Keep in mind that you are opening yourself fully to people because you feel the need to.

How they react isn't your problem any more than you needing to present something for them to react to is their problem.

Chances are that they're just as equally self absorbed into their own realities and couldn't care less how you feel.

:/ Well duh. I have no idea where I'm going with this anymore.. I'm going to stop before I lose the topic all together. I didn't exactly mean to speak on a fully personal level by that.
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« Reply #8: May 27, 2009, 10:40:17 am »

Why not start a new discussion? Why we don't care. Start.
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« Reply #9: May 27, 2009, 09:39:15 pm »


I don't waste time or energy dealing with folks who won't listen to me or give me the common courtesy of respect. Therefore, I don't deal with a lot of fluffy bunnies or fundies. I love passing along knowledge I've learned, or advice about common issues. And I love talking about Wicca and Paganism and helping people work through mistaken stereotype ideas they might have about it.

But true Fluffs and Fundies are just polar opposite ends of the same spectrum. They're right, everyone else is wrong, and they've got their fingers in their ears howling at anyone who tries to convince them to be open-minded about anyone else's opinions.

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« Reply #10: May 28, 2009, 12:20:57 am »

Fluffy bunnies and fundamentalists... Why not get right down to it?

So Witches, eclectics, Wiccans, and other neo-pagans all seem to have this problem of people not getting their facts straight. Some teenager, or hippy sees sparkles and pretty colors and wants to claim it for their own. That's one of the images I get when I see the phrase fluffy bunny.
I still don't completely understand what fluffy bunny is supposed to mean, and honestly it doesn't really matter to me, but I'm using it in here as an example of the "extremes" that the neo-pagan society has to deal with.

Fundamentalists: People who take their scriptures and bibles literally, will deny that a baseball is flying toward their face if the preacher says it's not there, and ultimately won't listen to the people telling them to duck. That's the picture I get. Not exactly the whole truth, but hey it's an example Smiley. Christians have to put up with that extreme.


Let's all play dodge ball!
Just kidding.


I think we should acknowledge the things we have in common. Then understand that no one is perfect, and we're all here to live and learn. The idea that someone might have that they need to step in someones way never makes any sense.
So what do we do? Ignore, and put up with the extremes, and problems that come with them? Is there another approach to lose the hate and rigidity? Somehow somewhere we're going to start sharing, and be open about our ideals, and beliefs. Hopefully commercialism won't beat us to it.

This is the end of my preaching. I had more ideas to put into this topic but right when I got to the last freaking paragraph I had a damn brain fart... So.. Irritating. Well, ideas?

Okay so i couldn't find a specific to focus on so i took the whole quote.

As far as fluffy bunnies go I gotta say personally i am not a fan of neo pagan/wicca/ whatever you want to call them. This is why so you can understand where some of the annoyance comes from. A lot of the new age stuff is snippets from other belief systems spped together and called something new, lol metaphysics 2.0. They take a lot of things but they lack the understanding of why it is the way it is and how it works. That is why i prefer the old religions. Wicca is not an old religion and even THAT has been broken down into sub categories. It's like saying "Okay well this applies to me and this applies but i'm going to forget the other stuff because i don't agree with it. Really if you think about it they are just like fundies except rather than a preacher saying the ball isn't there a half baked magick book from an uncredible source is telling them.

I will give an example. I am a racial mutt. Irish, sweedish, dutch, choctaw, chicasaw, black, and rumored cherokee. I grew up on stomp grounds. So i grew up on the culture and the religion. When I see white people try to mimick it. Make a circle build a fire and tromp around it, calling it a stomp ground I either want to snicker or sneer. There is a process to it. Not just what you see. It is hundreds of years of a system that gets thrown out the window cause someone think its just dancing around a fire. In reality it is one fire. The way it moves or multiplies is from taking from another stomp fire. You can't just build a fire and call it a stomp ground. Much like the olympic torch. That is how the power is spread. Their are appointed firekeepers, clan houses, singers, shakers. It is a dynamic. So when you get someone that plays copy cat you kinda get insulted because they don't understand what it really is. It really is stealing someones heritage.

If you are going to do it, do it the right way. No if a whit person was adopted or had permission from another legitimate grounds elder it would have been perfectly acceptable. I hope this made sense.

As for fundies, what can i say ignorance is bliss. Humans who say no human can understand the will of their god but then say they do. If i recall there were also people that ate poison jello and tried to ride a comet. Is it dangerous, yes. Is it ignorant, yes. Keep in mind though that it aways catches up to them. Personally I can sit back and watch them destroy themselves. The earth always takes itself back Smiley.
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« Reply #11: May 28, 2009, 07:43:23 am »


But true Fluffs and Fundies are just polar opposite ends of the same spectrum.

okay ...

... but who can define who and what true Fluffybunnies and Fundies are and when is the particular time where (which?)* it is not longer expedient to talk with them?
Only  yourself, or not?
And to check this out you have to talk to them, haven´t you?  Wink

Maybe, you are so "ignorant" to say: "It doesn´t interessts me enough, to engage my time and my energy".
This point of view is ok, but it is definetly not mine.
Because I like to understand why people think what they think, and I like it too, to scrutinize somethink, so that I can form my own, well foundet oppinion about something/someone ...  Wink


* [I´m not sure, which term is the right one to say "ab wann/ab welchem Zeitpunkt"]
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« Reply #12: May 28, 2009, 08:10:10 am »

At least in the way that I see it used here, this is at the heart of the bunies fluffiness. It's not the ignorance that is a problem it's the willful ignorance.

Exactly. Everyone starts off ignorant. Sometimes people pick up bad information when learning. A fluff bunny is someone who chooses to remain ignorant of what they are discussing/believing or who refuses to abandon the bad information they got out of a Wicca 101 book even even confronted with solid evidence that it is not accurate, often because they prefer to believe that nice-sounding bad information to not as neat reality.
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« Reply #13: May 28, 2009, 11:00:19 am »

Exactly. Everyone starts off ignorant. Sometimes people pick up bad information when learning. A fluff bunny is someone who chooses to remain ignorant of what they are discussing/believing or who refuses to abandon the bad information they got out of a Wicca 101 book even even confronted with solid evidence that it is not accurate, often because they prefer to believe that nice-sounding bad information to not as neat reality.

I'm going to employ another metaphor.

There are many people who either like or dislike beer. Of the ones who like it, taste is a factor but for many of them they don't care as much about taste as much as how the alcohol in it affects them and how inexpensively they can procure it.

My husband and I enjoy beers. We savor the various tastes. Yes, alcohol is part of the experience but all the herbs decocted and infused into the blend is a big part of the experience for us.

We don't have to loose ourselves in the alcohol to appreciate those herbal qualities. Sometimes one small bottle shared between the two of us affords us experience enough for the taste.

We also enjoy the history of beers and the political roles they've played in the cultures where they're consumed.

My husband makes beers. Watching it grow fascinates the guy to no end. We joke that instead of a fish tank for the grand kids to watch when they visit us, we have 5 gallon bottles of beer bubbling up.

Now who is "fluffy bunny", who is "fundamentalist", and who is the open minded tempered with enlightenment here?
How much does anyone need to know to find beer enjoyable?

Who is to say what the total beer experience actually is?




And this metaphor continues.
There are some people who have lost themselves in beer. The strength to not be swept away in it, for a possible multitude of reasons, just wasn't in them.
One small facet of beer, the alcohol, was what hooked them up, carried them away, and now they're presented the choice of either loosing themselves forever to alcohol

or never tasting a beer with alcohol in it again.

If they lecture us of the evils of beer, should those of us who can drink responsibly listen?
Is their experience the only one possible for us as well?




Not to forget the folks who have tasted a drink called beer, decided it just wasn't for them, and their life seems to be just fine without it.
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« Reply #14: May 28, 2009, 12:31:47 pm »

I'm going to employ another metaphor.

I don't think your metaphor applies to my definition of a fluffy bunny, as it lacks the requisite willfulness.  Here's a little illustration to give you an idea of what I mean:

Fluffy Bunny:  Nine million witches were killed during the Burning Times!
Nonfluffy Nonbunny:  Actually, the theories of Margaret Murray have been widely discredited.  Here are a few scholarly books that outline how and why.
FB:  But...that's the only reason I became a Witch--my connection with all the martyrs!
NN:  Well, it looks like you might need a new reason.
FB: Nope.  I choose to pretend modern scholars are liars and it's a vast conspiracy and... <LaLaLaLaICan'tHearYou>


It's not about beliefs, it's about willful ignorance of reality.  I don't say boo to people's beliefs (though I'll sometimes point out their incongruities when appropriate--"Here's why being a Christian Wiccan can be tricky", f'ex).  But when someone starts playing fast and loose with facts, I call fluffy.

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