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Author Topic: Fluffy Bunnies and Fundies  (Read 19851 times)
RandallS
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« Reply #90: June 15, 2011, 09:14:52 pm »

Christians adopted their rituals from Pagan religions.  Not all or most of the ones they use in church, but some of those as well, and a large majority of the holiday rituals.

Stuff like this does not become true simply by repeating it often. It still remains incorrect.
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« Reply #91: June 15, 2011, 09:25:16 pm »

Stuff like this does not become true simply by repeating it often. It still remains incorrect.

THIS

Nyte Shaed you are the one proposing that the Christians have co-opted Pagan Holidays, it is up to you to present credible evidence of this (i.e. academic or similar websites etc.)
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« Reply #92: June 16, 2011, 02:53:20 am »

The eggs lineage is less clear but the Easter Bunny is clearly a religious observance.

I was raised cristian and we were always taught that the easter bunny started as a secular custom since some woman hid eggs in the garden and her kids saw a rabbit hopping away and decided that the rabbit must have hidden the eggs. I don't have any sources for this as it was one of those things which I learnt very young but I never learnt anything at all about the easter bunny having anything to do with the religious holiday in any way shape or form.
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« Reply #93: June 16, 2011, 07:15:27 am »

The eggs lineage is less clear but the Easter Bunny is clearly a religious observance.

Nothing is a religious observance unless it is performed/participated in with religious intent. The Easter Bunny, like Father Christmas, is only a collateral amusement for children. At least that's how they've always been treated in my neck of the woods, in and out of church.

I've heard that some apostle or other early preacher used eggs to demonstrate the doctrine of the trinity, but I don't think I'd be able to find actual references.
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« Reply #94: June 16, 2011, 09:28:38 am »

If Pagans had adopted our rituals from Satanic groups then it would be an accurate statement that we were worshipping Satan without realizing it.  That's not the claim that Christians make, they claim that our Gods and Goddesses are actually Demons, or Satan wearing another face.

Christians adopted their rituals from Pagan religions.  Not all or most of the ones they use in church, but some of those as well, and a large majority of the holiday rituals.

Yeah, those holiday rituals are not observed in a religious way by Christians, that doesn't change the fact that they are religious rituals and they are observed by Christians.

Christians, for the most part, celebrate Pagan holidays.

And who can blame them?  Our holidays are way more fun.

Bottom line: it doesn't matter. Nobody , individual or group, has *ownership* of any naturally occuring object, animate or inanimate or any naturally occuring phenomena. And unless copyrighted, nobody has ownership of most symbols. Unless one wants to 'police up' the whole globe ( as many things, like rabbits and eggs are fairly pan-global) there is no 'high ground' to proclaim originality from.

If one wants to worship toads (as one does  Grin ), that doesn't mean 'I got there first so toads are mine!!' and further, it does not lessen one's affinity or belief in toads if someone else likes them or finds meaning or symbology in them as well.

cheers,
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« Reply #95: June 17, 2011, 11:46:43 am »

THIS

Nyte Shaed you are the one proposing that the Christians have co-opted Pagan Holidays, it is up to you to present credible evidence of this (i.e. academic or similar websites etc.)

Repeating that it is false doesn't make it so either.  I provided websites, those disagreeing with me did not.  Nobody refuted my websites either. 
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« Reply #96: June 17, 2011, 12:03:37 pm »

Nobody refuted my websites either. 

Could someone give me actual scholarly sources?


To me, that reads rather like 'did too'.
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« Reply #97: June 17, 2011, 02:19:28 pm »

To me, that reads rather like 'did too'.

Except that Koi is saying the SAME thing I am saying.  Christians do Pagan things on Christmas and Easter. 

He, and the site that was cited early state that these were not part of the original holiday.  I am not arguing that.  I am arguing that the Pagan traditions were grafted onto Christian holidays that occur at a similar time and that the majority of Christians in areas influenced by that culture (that is North America, Australia, the UK and Germany)  celebrate those holidays by doing things that were religious for the Pagans who celebrate the holiday at that time.

He, and the site, also argue that these practices are not religious for Christians.  Santa Claus is for many,  he's referred to as Saint Nick despite having far more in common with Father Winter.  The Easter Bunny, Easter Eggs, the Christmas Tree, Mistletoe, gifts etc may not be, but they were for the Pagans who celebrated the holidays prior to interacting with Christians and the Christians are (aside from Jehovah's witnesses and some other sections of Christianity who do their best to purge themselves of pagan practices)  observing Pagan religious holidays with Pagan religious traditions, even if they are not doing so with the same intent as a Pagan would.
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« Reply #98: June 17, 2011, 02:21:48 pm »

He, and the site, also argue that these practices are not religious for Christians. 

Which means they are not Christian religious practices.

You have been arguing they are.
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« Reply #99: June 17, 2011, 02:26:57 pm »

Which means they are not Christian religious practices.

You have been arguing they are.

Nope, read my posts.  I have been arguing that Christians celebrate pagan holidays.

They have absorbed certain Pagan practices as religious, but most of the big ones they simply follow the rituals without ascribing them any spiritual significance.
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« Reply #100: June 17, 2011, 02:33:04 pm »

Nope, read my posts.  I have been arguing that Christians celebrate pagan holidays.

"I have been arguing that Christians celebrate pagan holidays" is the same damn thing as "Pagan holidays are Christian religious practices".

Christians celebrate Christian holidays.

Some but not all of those may have cultural leftovers attached to them for fun.  These are not religious, not part of the religious holiday, and not relevant to Christian religious practices.
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« Reply #101: June 17, 2011, 02:39:46 pm »

Nope, read my posts.  I have been arguing that Christians celebrate pagan holidays.

They have absorbed certain Pagan practices as religious, but most of the big ones they simply follow the rituals without ascribing them any spiritual significance.

You mean every damn Christian on the planet is too damn stupid to realize their holidays have nothing to do with their religion?  For the past almost-2000 years?

... I think people are just a smidge smarter than that, thanks.
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« Reply #102: June 17, 2011, 02:40:45 pm »

You mean every damn Christian on the planet is too damn stupid to realize their holidays have nothing to do with their religion?  For the past almost-2000 years?

... I think people are just a smidge smarter than that, thanks.

Hey, I hear Pagans are too dumb to realize they're worshiping Satan and his minions.
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« Reply #103: June 17, 2011, 03:34:10 pm »

You mean every damn Christian on the planet is too damn stupid to realize their holidays have nothing to do with their religion?  For the past almost-2000 years?

... I think people are just a smidge smarter than that, thanks.

Yep, ignore the bit where I specified which parts of the world I was talking about.  And of course I meant 2000 years, when the Christians and the Pagans with those traditions hadn't even met each other 2000 years ago.  it's ok.  I know that putting the words into my mouth that you'd like to argue with is easier than refuting what I actually wrote.
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« Reply #104: June 17, 2011, 03:34:55 pm »

Hey, I hear Pagans are too dumb to realize they're worshiping Satan and his minions.

And it's not like I addressed exactly that arguement already, but that's ok, don't actually read the stuff you are mocking, it makes the arguement much easier for you.
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