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Author Topic: Christians battle each other over evolution  (Read 17065 times)
HeartShadow - Cutethulhu
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« Reply #15: May 28, 2009, 07:03:50 pm »

Because, after all, wouldn't the science that can kill people be part of Satan's schtick LONG before anthropology?

Dinosaurs are Satan's bastard children!
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« Reply #16: May 28, 2009, 07:11:44 pm »

Dinosaurs are Satan's bastard children!

And ICBM's???   Grin
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« Reply #17: May 28, 2009, 07:19:35 pm »

I think you might be referring to the Mennonites (sp). As I understand it, they are an offshoot of the traditional Amish though there are a few Amish communities that are becoming more progressive much to the dismay of some of the "elders" as well as some steadfast members.

Anyways I agree with HeartShadow..public school has its own function and if there are parents who are more comfortable teaching religion to their kids then that is what parochial schools are for and it is high time that our representatives grow a spine for once and tell these religious groups that there is a place for everything..and public school is not there to teach religion..that is the job of the parents.

In fact I think any activity that isn't dealing directly with education is the sole responsibility of the parents, this includes all matters in art and sports too...but that is another matter.

Sorry if I sound disjointed but this force-feeding of religion really irks me sometimes.

The amish can ride in cars, there are many amish who hire cars or ride a bus to go do long distance shopping or go long distances where a horse and buggy really aren't feasable, and all amish will use a telephone if they really need to, they just can't be hooked up to it, how far away depends on the order.  Most, if not all, amish wil use modern medicine when they need to, they will just try not to need to.  For one thing, it's expensive.  So no, I'm not thinking of the mennonites, and no I don't think the amish are hypocritical in and of their lifestyle, they just pick and choose just far into the modern world they are willing to go.  THey don't deny the rest of it, but it is not for them. THey can be hypocritical for various other reasons, including possibly creationism, but not for their lifestyle reason.
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« Reply #18: May 28, 2009, 07:41:25 pm »

I think you might be referring to the Mennonites (sp). As I understand it, they are an offshoot of the traditional Amish though there are a few Amish communities that are becoming more progressive much to the dismay of some of the "elders" as well as some steadfast members.


Actually, you have that backwards.  Originally the entire sect was called Mennonite, after Menno Simons, the Catholic priest who ended up leading an anabaptist sect in either the Netherlands or Friesland, (I'm not sure which) in the 1500s.  The Amish split off from the Mennonites about a century later.  Their name comes from a Mennonite elder named Jakob Ammann.  There is actually very little difference between an Old Colony Mennonite and an Amish, but the Mennonites also have more modern groups, depending on what technology the elders of the various communities have decided to endorse.  There is no hard and fast prohibition on technology, but any 'advance' needs to be examined and debated very seriously before being adopted.

Modern medicine, some animal husbandry and safer farming methods, food storage, etc. (basically things to do with actual health and safety rather than just convenience) is accepted to some extent in almost all colonies.  A single Mennonite family can have completely modern Mennonites, black bumper Mennonites, and Old Colony Mennonites in it with a minimum of internal strife, although they don't tend to live together.  There is also a certain amount of family relationships between Mennonite and Amish even 4-5 hundred years after the split.

Absent - compliments of a Mennonite husband, and with apologies for continuing the off-topicness.

Edited to add:  The original split from the Catholic church didn't have anything to do with technology or worldliness - it was about baptism.  Later choices just make it seem as if simple living is their main identifier as a group.
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« Reply #19: May 28, 2009, 08:21:34 pm »

And ICBM's???   Grin

God's measure of retribution against the unjust!

Now we just have to figure out who those are exactly .......
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« Reply #20: May 28, 2009, 09:38:57 pm »

Because, after all, wouldn't the science that can kill people be part of Satan's schtick LONG before anthropology?

Christianity doesn't care about people being killed, in fact they will and have killed to save the soul. 
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« Reply #21: May 28, 2009, 09:41:15 pm »

God's measure of retribution against the unjust!

Now we just have to figure out who those are exactly .......

Kill them all let the God(s) sort them out.  They know which are theirs.
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« Reply #22: May 28, 2009, 11:03:05 pm »

Christianity doesn't care about people being killed, in fact they will and have killed to save the soul. 

This seems a gross and inaccurate generalisation. Ignoring for a moment that Christianity is (arguably) not a single religion, Christianity does nothing. It is a set of ideas and associated practice that individual people may claim to act in accordance with. Such claims do not mean that the individual is correct. Mostly though, the statement just strikes me as one that would be labelled bigotted if you replaced the word Christianity with an equivalent, such as Pagan, Asatru, Wicca, etc..
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« Reply #23: May 29, 2009, 05:31:05 am »

Christianity doesn't care about people being killed, in fact they will and have killed to save the soul. 


*** MOD HAT ON ***This forum is not the appropriate place to make broad accusations of this nature.  We are an interfaith community that includes Christians, and while you don't have to like the religion to play here, you do have to be civil.  Which means not claiming that the whole religion is murderous.

I highly suggest that you read our Tolerance Guideline:
http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=33.0

As well as the third DO NOT in our rules:
http://www.ecauldron.net/forum/index.php?topic=16.0

For the record, speaking as a moderator, I do consider your statement above to be the sort of blanket condemnation that is expressly forbidden by the rules.  That some Christians have killed and would kill to save souls I do not dispute, but they are vastly outnumbered by the Christians who live by the rule "thou shalt not kill".  To accuse the whole religion of indifference to or even an inclination toward murder based on the actions of a few adherents is not acceptable at this forum.

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« Reply #24: May 29, 2009, 08:26:30 am »

Christianity doesn't care about people being killed, in fact they will and have killed to save the soul.  

As Star has pointed out, this is Christianity Bashing and not allowed. It's not even true. Yes, at certain times in history this view has been held by some Christians, but it is not much held today. Just as the Pagan view that Christians who will not acknowledge the Roman Emperor as a God should be put to death is not much held today.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 08:40:16 am by LyricFox » Logged

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« Reply #25: May 29, 2009, 08:34:33 am »

Without disagreeing with your point at all, which are the subjectst hat you would approve of in public education? Should all cultural education be banned (along with, belief systems, art and sport)?

Teaching religion as if it is science is not "cultural education." The problem isn't with teaching a particular subject, the problem is with teaching a subject as if it were ANOTHER subject. Two totally different things.
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« Reply #26: May 29, 2009, 11:20:30 am »

Without disagreeing with your point at all, which are the subjects that you would approve of in public education? Should all cultural education be banned (along with, belief systems, art and sport)?

I feel that art is fine as a subject if it relates to history of a culture but I simply feel it is not needed or necessary to teach it as a skill.
I don't want to hijack this thread but I will say this..if a child wants to learn to paint, sculpt, kick a ball or play the trombone and is actually interested in such things then I feel this is the responsibility of the parents to orchestrate something.
 
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« Reply #27: May 29, 2009, 11:26:19 am »

God's measure of retribution against the unjust!

Now we just have to figure out who those are exactly .......

Well Cheney still hasn't shut the f**k up!
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« Reply #28: May 29, 2009, 11:45:41 am »

I feel that art is fine as a subject if it relates to history of a culture but I simply feel it is not needed or necessary to teach it as a skill.
I don't want to hijack this thread but I will say this..if a child wants to learn to paint, sculpt, kick a ball or play the trombone and is actually interested in such things then I feel this is the responsibility of the parents to orchestrate something.
 

Well, that raises deeper questions about the role of school and what is "useful skill" vs "recreation".

One of the current theories of schooling is that one should expose a child to as many possibilities as possible so they can have some idea of what it IS they enjoy.  If all they ever see is academic subjects, how will they ever know they like to sculpt, or paint?  etc.

It looks like you're saying the point of school is NOT that - it's to give them academic tools and absolutely nothing else.

Which raises the question of what's "academic" and what's "recreational" - is literature academic?  I certainly enjoy reading, but it's a useful life skill - what makes MY recreation academic and someone else's not?
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« Reply #29: May 29, 2009, 12:01:21 pm »

Well, that raises deeper questions about the role of school and what is "useful skill" vs "recreation".

Recreation is the responsibility of the individual. If I had a child I rather have the schools help in teaching him to read and do math..if the child is interested in a hobby or pursuing an art skill or sports then that is my responsibility not the taxpayers.

School is not the only place to be exposed to art..there are museums of many types as well as videos, books and just plain observation and good old fashioned initiative.

Like I tried to say before, learning of art as how it pertains to culture is one thing and it also can inspire a child to try something or actually learn something on their own. I realize my view is highly unpopular but this is how I see it. I don't want to say more or I will be accused of thread hijacking.
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