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Author Topic: mental disorders  (Read 6869 times)
unbendingwill
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« Reply #15: July 08, 2009, 10:00:20 pm »

Don't know if this is any help, but here's what that made me think of:

Among the Daniel Ladinsky "renderings" (i.e., a lot looser than "translations" would be) of the poetry of the Sufi master Hafiz, is a little gem about "hearing voices." I'd be tempted to quote the whole thing, but alas, plagiarism... *sigh* The gist is this:

A seeker comes to a spiritual teacher and asks him whether the visions the seeker has been having are real visions.

The teacher replies (and I hope this very short quote is okay):

How many goats do you have...

How many rose bushes in your garden,
How many children,
Are your parents still alive,
Do you feed the birds in winter?

The seeker, of course, is incensed at this cavalier response to his "sublime visions"!

But the teacher explains that this IS, in fact, the true test: "real" visions are those which make us, not more sublime, but more profoundly human.

I've often asked myself whether the things I feel are true or real, when they don't mesh well with the rational world that my waking self has come to accept. What I ended up choosing as a yardstick is whether those non-mundane feelings and experiences are calling me to be more deeply myself, in ways that are real in the waking world. If they are, I'm cool. If they should seem to be calling me to suddenly change, deny, or overreach myself, I'll think twice before going there.

~Val~*
not to seem like I'm whining here but...I really thought I was having an experience and that I was having this guy come into my dreams that I was feeling things that no one else could feel...and in the end it was all in my head.  This thing can be that powerful...I have to be that scrutenizing over everything that it almost takes the fun out of living.  The voices even will appear as sounds like my cell phone ring so I have to question everything I hear...it's a trial to say the least but your right it does tend to be absurd what the voices say so diferentiating between that and a god maybe easier than I'm giving my self credit for but sometimes it did make sense and it did talk back and it was scary...so I have to watch out...
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summerwind
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« Reply #16: July 11, 2009, 05:39:49 am »

My question today is....does having a mental disorder effect your spell workings?  Is it possible to be bipolar and cast a spell or be schizophrenic, hear voices and still have a relationship with a God?  Is it possible for a schizophrenic person to differentiate between the voices they hear and the voice of a God?  Would stinking thinking get in the way of casting a spell?  Just wanted to hear you guy's opinions on this matter....
It would affect them but it can be both positive and negative. The strength of emotion a bipolar has would make more powerful spells but negative thinking and bad feelings distracting you would scatter the energies and dissipate them. You must have a consistent focus even emotionally. As a bipolar you need to completely center and attune before you do anything. For a schizophrenic, they would be able to feel the difference between god and voices. Once again it would be a distraction they'd need to get rid of.  It could get in the way but it doesn't have to.
Popular wicccan beleif is, "if you have a mental disorder you can't do magick, until you 'get rid' of it" but the truth of the matter is, people are born the way they are born, some disorders do not go away, and yet those people can create some of the best works of art and most powerful magick that certain aspects of the disorder allow them to do, while other aspects are a detriment to magick.
You might as well ask, "does negativity affect spells? can someone on alcohol or marijuana do a spell?" Yeah you can do it, and as good, it just takes way more effort. You need to learn to accomodate your disorder, or, a detrimental personality trait, just like a wheelchair-bound person needs wheelchair ramps. This is not to say you need any help, just that you know you should have certain conditions present(or, not present) in yourself before you attempt magick.
Doping magick with a mental disorder, is like the difference between striking a fire with a flint and striking one with a lighter: same result, different way.
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summerwind
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« Reply #17: July 11, 2009, 12:34:25 pm »

After reading the other responses, it is safe tot ell you I myself have bipolar.
In a manic episode the thought of doing magick doesn't usually even occur to me for some reason. If it did I'd be too distracted. In a depressed episode, I usually don't feel up to it. However it can help on whatever you're depressed about, if you can muster the energy to do it.
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unbendingwill
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« Reply #18: July 11, 2009, 01:37:14 pm »

After reading the other responses, it is safe tot ell you I myself have bipolar.
In a manic episode the thought of doing magick doesn't usually even occur to me for some reason. If it did I'd be too distracted. In a depressed episode, I usually don't feel up to it. However it can help on whatever you're depressed about, if you can muster the energy to do it.
It has been refreshing to see this many people come out about their disorders....thank you for sharing! I'm sorry to hear that you do suffer though and it is sad that anyone has to go through the swings in life but such is life, no?  Magic does seem to brighten my mood so I see what you are saying so long as you have the energy to do so.
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Perzephone
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« Reply #19: July 11, 2009, 02:46:52 pm »

My question today is....does having a mental disorder effect your spell workings?  Is it possible to be bipolar and cast a spell or be schizophrenic, hear voices and still have a relationship with a God?  Is it possible for a schizophrenic person to differentiate between the voices they hear and the voice of a God?  Would stinking thinking get in the way of casting a spell?  Just wanted to hear you guy's opinions on this matter....

I've had depression all my life, and normally my emotions are a pretty steady flatline. I'm not bipolar, but I do get occasional 'upswings' where I can be content and emotionally functional for a few days, sometimes even a few months, and during those times I feel more spiritually aware.

It can be extremely hard to muster up the energy necessary to do spellcraft or participate in ritual work - if I don't have the energy to clean my freakin' house or cook a decent meal or do more than drag myself to bed, to work, back home & back to bed I definitely do not have the energy to communicate with my deities.

Sometimes I wonder if my depression is symptomatic of schizophrenia because I do see things, hear things and experience things beyond the 'here and now' - but usually schizophrenia doesn't manifest until adolescence and seeing, hearing and experiencing things beyond the here & now has been with me my entire life. As it stands, I don't feel like going to a psychiatrist and being 'diagnosed' with a mental illness other than chronic depression. If I'm nuts, I'm not harming anyone, and if I'm not nuts then I'm being given the rare privilege of living with more than just 5 senses.

I also don't necessarily believe that mentally ill people should be segregated from society, drugged into oblivion and shunned. Yes, in some cases it is safer to interact with the 'Divine Fools' from a safe distance, but society suffers as a whole by denying mentally ill  people a  place within it.
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Nehet
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« Reply #20: July 12, 2009, 12:56:07 am »

Popular wicccan beleif is, "if you have a mental disorder you can't do magick, until you 'get rid' of it" but the truth of the matter is, people are born the way they are born, some disorders do not go away, and yet those people can create some of the best works of art and most powerful magick that certain aspects of the disorder allow them to do, while other aspects are a detriment to magick.

I actually haven't heard this belief in Wiccan circles, but if it is popular, then I'm sorry to hear it.  What I have heard is the equally disturbing belief that if we all did magic effectively, we wouldn't be sick. And if we are sick, then there's something wrong with our magic.

I have also been told that one shouldn't make offerings when one is in a bad mood.  Some believe it's a form of impurity.  I see their point, and I totally respect people's decision to do so.   It shows that they care about how they present themselves before the Netjeru, and that's important.  For me, it just doesn't work.  There are definitely days when I feel too depressed to get up and clean my house, let alone do a ritual.  But if I only did ritual when I was happy, there would be periods of weeks, if not months, where my offering bowls just collected dust. 

My Gods love me, Bipolar disorder at all.  If they didn't want the whole package, they wouldn't be here. 

I also find the process of purification before ritual to be very grounding and almost healing.  I use natron to wash away all the bad energy that I sometimes carry.  Usually by the time I'm done purifying, I'm in a better mood anyway. 
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T Bone
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« Reply #21: July 17, 2009, 01:43:05 am »

My Gods love me, Bipolar disorder at all.  If they didn't want the whole package, they wouldn't be here. 

I agree with this.  Some of the most spiritually in-tune people I know have serious mental illnesses and all of them enjoy deep and profound bonds with their gods and spirit guides. 
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Elicia
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« Reply #22: July 26, 2009, 06:04:14 pm »

My question today is....does having a mental disorder effect your spell workings?  Is it possible to be bipolar and cast a spell or be schizophrenic, hear voices and still have a relationship with a God?  Is it possible for a schizophrenic person to differentiate between the voices they hear and the voice of a God?  Would stinking thinking get in the way of casting a spell?  Just wanted to hear you guy's opinions on this matter....

I think it all depends on how severe the mental illness is. For example, if a bipoloar person who is on medication and in a fairly stable state may be able to think clearly enough to cast a spell.

On the other hand, if a person has severe schizophrenia and cannot think clearly, then that causes problems.
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« Reply #23: July 29, 2009, 03:03:07 pm »

Is it possible to be bipolar and cast a spell or be schizophrenic, hear voices and still have a relationship with a God? 
OMG - this is such a great question!  my bf is very bi-polar and is supposed to be on lithium.  he mostly chooses not to take his lithium and so is either very manic or very depressed most of the time.

he has NO relationship with any God that i can tell - and he is very jealous and even afraid of mine.  I have tried in the past to introduce him to the Goddess because the God of his youth was a very vengeful and judgemental God and i think that he gave up long ago out of being afraid to be punished.

he actually believes that he will probably go to hell!  nothing i can say will convince him otherwise.  he feels that there is only one option - and that he failed in that - so is left with nothing.

he has however been able to occasionally open his mind enough to be in a purification ritual with me and my mom - and not run away terrified.   

so yes, i think that a bi-polar person, provided they can be open minded enough to make the leap of faith - can have a relationship with god - provided it provides them comfort.


about the voice thing, he sometimes hears voices, indeed that is part of his problem - getting his brain to be quiet.  he has supposedly learned to 'throw away' the mis-information and keep the good. 

djh
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unbendingwill
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« Reply #24: August 02, 2009, 05:13:35 pm »

OMG - this is such a great question!  my bf is very bi-polar and is supposed to be on lithium.

djh

Wow, I feel really bad for him.  Being on Lithium sucks ass! I know because they put me on 1,500milligrams of the shit, NO lie!  Along with a whole cocktail of other drugs!  But Lithium will eat your liver up and you have to get constant blood work to see when it will kill your liver, ya know what I'm trying to say.  So tell him to try and get on a better mood stabalizer like abilify or topamax.  Those are what I am on and they diagnosed me with bipolar as well as being schizophrenic.  So it would prob help him out.  Once he is balanced then he might even start thinking a little clearer about his spirituality.

You might be able to get him to come around.  Maybe wicca isn't for him but maybe something a little bit less to do with Gods like Buddhism, even though some people do worship him as a God, he doesn't have to.  But it's a good place to start.
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« Reply #25: August 02, 2009, 08:59:10 pm »

OMG - this is such a great question!  my bf is very bi-polar and is supposed to be on lithium.  he mostly chooses not to take his lithium and so is either very manic or very depressed most of the time.

he has NO relationship with any God that i can tell - and he is very jealous and even afraid of mine.  I have tried in the past to introduce him to the Goddess because the God of his youth was a very vengeful and judgemental God and i think that he gave up long ago out of being afraid to be punished.

he actually believes that he will probably go to hell!  nothing i can say will convince him otherwise.  he feels that there is only one option - and that he failed in that - so is left with nothing.

he has however been able to occasionally open his mind enough to be in a purification ritual with me and my mom - and not run away terrified.   

so yes, i think that a bi-polar person, provided they can be open minded enough to make the leap of faith - can have a relationship with god - provided it provides them comfort.


about the voice thing, he sometimes hears voices, indeed that is part of his problem - getting his brain to be quiet.  he has supposedly learned to 'throw away' the mis-information and keep the good. 

djh


It may or may not work for him, but have him contact his p-doc and ask about fish oil.  My daughter takes 4,000mg/day for her bipolar and it works better for her than the lithium ever did, or Abilify.  It was her doctor's recommendation, too, not something found online.  It may not work, but it might.  If the fish oil makes him sick to his stomach (it does taste funky and you'll burp that taste up all the time), flax, borage, evening primrose and algae oils can be used instead.  Look for "vegan Omega3 fatty acids".  It's worth a try, and it doesn't make her feel flat like the meds did, just drops off the mania and the depression without any nasty side effects except the burping fishy flavors.
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« Reply #26: August 02, 2009, 09:44:25 pm »

It was her doctor's recommendation, too, not something found online.

Yeah, actually, I had the same recommendation by my doctor regarding ongoing depression and dissociation. 6000mg was the recommended dosage, and it was worth the fish burps for the benefits I got from it. There are reflux-preventing capsules, but I found they didn't make a difference to me. Either way, that's a much better side effect than what you can get from other medications for mental illness!
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« Reply #27: August 02, 2009, 11:00:37 pm »

Yeah, actually, I had the same recommendation by my doctor regarding ongoing depression and dissociation. 6000mg was the recommended dosage, and it was worth the fish burps for the benefits I got from it. There are reflux-preventing capsules, but I found they didn't make a difference to me. Either way, that's a much better side effect than what you can get from other medications for mental illness!

That was my thought.  I take evening primrose oil myself, for menstrual stuff, and we're looking at switching her when her current bottle runs out to the vegan omega3 blend, as if it works as well without the fish burps, we'll have the ideal treatment for her.  I've heard of people taking 8,000mg and more a day, depending on their needs.  She's doing good with 4,000, but you know, whatever works, right? 

She never had problems with the lithium, but she really hated the flat feeling.  She said she felt like she wasn't really real on it, and that wasn't what we wanted. 
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« Reply #28: September 23, 2009, 09:45:24 am »

Wow, I feel really bad for him.  Being on Lithium sucks ass! I know because they put me on 1,500milligrams of the shit, NO lie!  Along with a whole cocktail of other drugs!  But Lithium will eat your liver up and you have to get constant blood work to see when it will kill your liver, ya know what I'm trying to say.  So tell him to try and get on a better mood stabalizer like abilify or topamax.  Those are what I am on and they diagnosed me with bipolar as well as being schizophrenic.  So it would prob help him out.  Once he is balanced then he might even start thinking a little clearer about his spirituality.

You might be able to get him to come around.  Maybe wicca isn't for him but maybe something a little bit less to do with Gods like Buddhism, even though some people do worship him as a God, he doesn't have to.  But it's a good place to start.

I am bi polar. Actually, Bipolar II, so I don't have the manic episodes. The primary sympton is depression and suicidial thoughts and obessions. Thankfully I have found meds that actually work (! yay!). Specifically, I am on Abilify (why i quoted the above...Abilify is a very viable alternative and much safer than lithium, from what I know.) and lamotrigine. Because of these meds I am alive today.

I do magic I do my personal rituals and I don't think my mental illness has a negative effect, or should I say, an effect that can't be worked with. Any Diety who shuns me for how my brain works is a false god, as far as I'm concerned. If I am depressed (rarer than it used to be, but occasionally I do feel depressed) I don't do ritual, I just meditate. When I feel better, I am more centered and in control. This is how I manage my symptoms.

Best of luck to you!

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