The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum (Archive Board)
November 30, 2023, 07:29:28 pm *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: This is our Read Only Archive Board (closed to posting July 2011). Join our new vBulletin board!
 
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
November 30, 2023, 07:29:28 pm

Login with username, password and session length
Donate!
The Cauldron's server is expensive and requires monthly payments. Please become a Bronze, Silver or Gold Donor if you can. Donations are needed every month. Without member support, we can't afford the server.
TC Staff
Important Information about this Archive Board
This message board is The Cauldron: A Pagan Forum's SMF Archive Board. It is closed to new memberships and to posting, but there are over 250,000 messages here that you can still search and read -- many full of interesting and useful information. (This board was open from February 2007 through June 2011).

Our new vBulletin discussion board is located at http://www.ecauldron.com/forum/ -- if you would like to participate in discussions like those you see here, please visit our new vBulletin message board, register an account and join in our discussions. We hope you will find the information in this message archive useful and will consider joining us on our new board.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
Author Topic: U.S. Army the 'Army of God?'  (Read 5656 times)
Melamphoros
Staff
Grand Adept Member
***
Last Login:March 28, 2015, 11:01:26 pm
United States United States

Religion: Informed Eclectic with Hellenic Overtones
TCN ID: Melamphoros
Posts: 13621


Kiss My Scythe

Blog entries (0)


« Topic Start: June 24, 2009, 03:50:33 pm »

Christian Soldiers: The growing controversy over military chaplains using the armed forces to spread the Word.

Ever since former president George W. Bushreferred to the war on terror as a “crusade” in the days after the September 11 attacks, many have charged that the United States was conducting a holy war, pitting a Christian America against the Muslim world. That perception grew as prominent military leaders such as Lt. Gen. William Boykin described the wars in evangelical terms, casting the U.S. military as the "army of God." Although President Obama addressed the Muslim world this month in an attempt to undo the Bush administration's legacy of militant Christian rhetoric that often antagonized Muslim countries, several recent stories have framed the issue as a wider problem of an evangelical military culture that sees spreading Christianity as part of its mission.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/202734?GT1=43002

Logged



Jesus saves, Allah forgives, Cthulhu thinks you will make a great sandwich.
My Spiritual Blog

Welcome, Guest!
You will need to register and/or login to participate in our discussions.

Read our Rules and Policies and the Quoting Guidelines.

Help Fund Our Server? Donate to Lyricfox's Cancer Fund?

Altair
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:December 18, 2012, 06:59:40 am
United States United States

Religion: Wiccan-ish pantheistic polytheist
Posts: 1942


Follow your star wherever it may lead

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #1: June 24, 2009, 04:30:39 pm »

Christian Soldiers: The growing controversy over military chaplains using the armed forces to spread the Word.

Ever since former president George W. Bushreferred to the war on terror as a “crusade” in the days after the September 11 attacks, many have charged that the United States was conducting a holy war, pitting a Christian America against the Muslim world. That perception grew as prominent military leaders such as Lt. Gen. William Boykin described the wars in evangelical terms, casting the U.S. military as the "army of God." Although President Obama addressed the Muslim world this month in an attempt to undo the Bush administration's legacy of militant Christian rhetoric that often antagonized Muslim countries, several recent stories have framed the issue as a wider problem of an evangelical military culture that sees spreading Christianity as part of its mission.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/202734?GT1=43002



Great. And we give these people guns.
Logged

Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #2: June 24, 2009, 04:50:11 pm »

Christian Soldiers: The growing controversy over military chaplains using the armed forces to spread the Word.

Ever since former president George W. Bushreferred to the war on terror as a “crusade” in the days after the September 11 attacks, many have charged that the United States was conducting a holy war, pitting a Christian America against the Muslim world. That perception grew as prominent military leaders such as Lt. Gen. William Boykin described the wars in evangelical terms, casting the U.S. military as the "army of God." Although President Obama addressed the Muslim world this month in an attempt to undo the Bush administration's legacy of militant Christian rhetoric that often antagonized Muslim countries, several recent stories have framed the issue as a wider problem of an evangelical military culture that sees spreading Christianity as part of its mission.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/202734?GT1=43002



At least the story acknowledges that this is not the viewpoint of most of the members of the armed forces.  Speaking from experience most members of the military are not practicing much of any religion.  My SO was not allowed (in the '70's) to NOT have a religion on his dog tags, so he had them put Druid.  There wasn't the controversy then that there is now - the only response was "how do you spell it".....

While the chaplains may be 'spreading the word of god' I don't think most of the rest of the troops are.  Either way, it certainly isn't an ethical thing to do......
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #3: June 24, 2009, 05:07:11 pm »

While the chaplains may be 'spreading the word of god' I don't think most of the rest of the troops are.  Either way, it certainly isn't an ethical thing to do......

Unfortunately, a number of the upper brass seem to be -- at least enough to look the other way when the evangelicals do their conversion big. Apparently even when the evangelicals doing their conversion bit are doing it on people under their command or people in the host host country. Sad
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #4: June 24, 2009, 05:12:47 pm »

Unfortunately, a number of the upper brass seem to be -- at least enough to look the other way when the evangelicals do their conversion big. Apparently even when the evangelicals doing their conversion bit are doing it on people under their command or people in the host host country. Sad

I know - and that sucks.  I am hoping that the 'different' climate of the Obama administration will cause that to diminish.
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #5: June 24, 2009, 05:14:16 pm »

I am hoping that the 'different' climate of the Obama administration will cause that to diminish.

Unless Obama is willing to can a few generals to make the point, I doubt he can do much.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
Owl
Adept Member
*****
Last Login:March 07, 2012, 02:46:28 pm
United States United States

Religion: Hedgewitch?
Posts: 1428

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #6: June 24, 2009, 05:41:44 pm »

Unless Obama is willing to can a few generals to make the point, I doubt he can do much.

Unfortunately true.
Logged

AntlerandHerb.com
WarHorse
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 04, 2012, 06:05:14 pm
United States United States

Religion: Eclectic Pantheist
Posts: 2994


The little tyke.

Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #7: June 24, 2009, 09:10:50 pm »

Unless Obama is willing to can a few generals to make the point, I doubt he can do much.

Given his efforts to build bridges with the Islamic world, I wouldn't put it past him to issue a 'cease and desist' order once the economy stabilizes and he has some credit to burn.

Logged

"I've seen knights in armor panic at the first hint of battle.  And I've seen the lowliest unarmed squire pull a spear from his own body to defend a dying horse." - Kevin Costner as Robin of Loxley, Robin Hood; Prince of Thieves.
RandallS
Co-Host
Administrator
Grand Adept Member
*****
Last Login:October 30, 2020, 08:18:05 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Pagan
TCN ID: ADMIN
Posts: 17181


Blog entries (0)


« Reply #8: June 24, 2009, 10:01:39 pm »

Given his efforts to build bridges with the Islamic world, I wouldn't put it past him to issue a 'cease and desist' order once the economy stabilizes and he has some credit to burn.

I'd certainly support him. iIt is our own non-evangelical members of the military who suffer the most from allowing "on-the-job conversion" -- they have to live with these folks 24/7 in many cases.
Logged

Randall
RetroRoleplaying [Blog - Forum] -- Out Of Print & Out Of Style Tabletop Roleplaying Games
Software Gadgets Blog -- Interesting Software, Mostly Free
Cheap Web Hosting -- Find an Affordable Web Host
sailor_tech
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:July 06, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
United States United States

Religion: Jewish
Posts: 3564

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #9: June 26, 2009, 05:55:33 pm »

Unfortunately, a number of the upper brass seem to be -- at least enough to look the other way when the evangelicals do their conversion big. Apparently even when the evangelicals doing their conversion bit are doing it on people under their command or people in the host host country. Sad

Depends upon how you define upper brass.

Most of the problems seem to come from the Lt Col and Col level. These are commanding officers of units that are small enough for them to meet many of their troops, yet large enough (and the officer's senior enough) that there isn't much of a chain of command above them.

As for timing, this has been an issue since Clinton's first term. It got more pronounced after 2002 as the anti-war movement got into gear.  The military is drawing from a smaller section of society, many of whom come from evangelical backgrounds.

Note also from the article, it's apparently only 42 chaplains that are creating a lot of the issues.
Logged
mandrina
High Adept Member
******
Last Login:August 13, 2013, 11:51:25 pm
United States United States

Religion: Reclaiming practice, still trying to identify diety, but have some ideas
Posts: 3546


Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #10: June 27, 2009, 10:34:28 am »

Depends upon how you define upper brass.

Most of the problems seem to come from the Lt Col and Col level. These are commanding officers of units that are small enough for them to meet many of their troops, yet large enough (and the officer's senior enough) that there isn't much of a chain of command above them.

As for timing, this has been an issue since Clinton's first term. It got more pronounced after 2002 as the anti-war movement got into gear.  The military is drawing from a smaller section of society, many of whom come from evangelical backgrounds.

Note also from the article, it's apparently only 42 chaplains that are creating a lot of the issues.


In which case, there are 42 chaplains who need to be told to cease and desist, because they aren't helping.
Logged

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

every good guy in any of the Star Wars movies.





[url=http://dragcave.net/vi
JesuSlaveX
Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 02, 2009, 07:30:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Essence Magic
Posts: 26


Harbinger of all things groovy

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #11: June 29, 2009, 10:38:11 am »

Unfortunately, a number of the upper brass seem to be -- at least enough to look the other way when the evangelicals do their conversion big. Apparently even when the evangelicals doing their conversion bit are doing it on people under their command or people in the host host country. Sad

I view it more as attempting to massage the hearts of the Christian majority in this country.  Lets face it, Christianity and Judaism as a whole are in control of every aspect of this nation.  Now, I know that may sound a bit off, but I include Judaism in there as most Christians honestly believe that we need to back Israel no matter how deplorable their behaviors are.  There is no better way to get support for a war then to label them what a Christian would by nature hate.  Call them EVIL.  It works every time.
Logged

Owner/Operator Waynesville Web Media
Heres my Personal Blog
Darkhawk
Chief Mux Wizard
Staff
Adept Member
***
*
Last Login:June 19, 2022, 03:47:05 pm
United States United States

Religion: Kemetic Feri Discordian
Posts: 2485

Blog entries (0)

WWW
« Reply #12: June 30, 2009, 03:08:47 am »

Now, I know that may sound a bit off, but I include Judaism in there as most Christians honestly believe that we need to back Israel no matter how deplorable their behaviors are.

That has nothing to do with Judaism; that has to do with a deranged belief that if there's a proper Jewish homeland then we get to throw the Apocalypse and the Second Coming is invited.  It's a particular flavor of millenialist end times Christianity, not "most Christians"; it just happens to be affiliated with the sort of Christianity that got a lot of political support during the younger Bush's administration.
Logged

JesuSlaveX
Apprentice
**
Last Login:November 02, 2009, 07:30:44 pm
United States United States

Religion: Essence Magic
Posts: 26


Harbinger of all things groovy

Blog entries (0)



Ignore
« Reply #13: July 27, 2009, 08:02:01 am »

That has nothing to do with Judaism; that has to do with a deranged belief that if there's a proper Jewish homeland then we get to throw the Apocalypse and the Second Coming is invited.  It's a particular flavor of millenialist end times Christianity, not "most Christians"; it just happens to be affiliated with the sort of Christianity that got a lot of political support during the younger Bush's administration.

I'll give you that one.  I should have been more careful with my words.  I only said that because where I live most Christians follow that mentality.  The movement is huge in the mountains of North Carolina
Logged

Owner/Operator Waynesville Web Media
Heres my Personal Blog
Kullervo
Apprentice
**
Last Login:August 05, 2009, 10:28:33 am
United States United States

Religion: Hellenic Polytheist
Posts: 23


Blog entries (0)

WWW

Ignore
« Reply #14: August 03, 2009, 01:49:58 pm »

Christian Soldiers: The growing controversy over military chaplains using the armed forces to spread the Word.

Ever since former president George W. Bushreferred to the war on terror as a “crusade” in the days after the September 11 attacks, many have charged that the United States was conducting a holy war, pitting a Christian America against the Muslim world. That perception grew as prominent military leaders such as Lt. Gen. William Boykin described the wars in evangelical terms, casting the U.S. military as the "army of God." Although President Obama addressed the Muslim world this month in an attempt to undo the Bush administration's legacy of militant Christian rhetoric that often antagonized Muslim countries, several recent stories have framed the issue as a wider problem of an evangelical military culture that sees spreading Christianity as part of its mission.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/202734?GT1=43002



For the record, my experience in the military (three different states' Army National Guards) has not really been anything like the breeding ground of Evangelical fervor that it has been painted with in a handful of news articles and subsequently, post after post of alarmist panic out here in the internets.

Most of us never see a Chaplain, and snicker behind their backs when they come around anyway.  Most guys are not extremely religious, and those that are are usually pretty quiet about it.  The Army is not really a place for the thin-skinned, and you can pretty much count on getting good-natured teasing for anything possible, including your religion: I'm out as a pagan, and I dish it out as well as I take it.

All I'm saying is, don't blow this thing out of proportion.  Even if there are hundreds of chaplains who are totally out of line, don't overestimate the influence chaplains have over the average joe.
Logged

Donor Ad: Become a Silver or Gold Donor to get your ad here.

Tags:
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Add bookmark  |  Print  
 
Jump to:  
  Portal   Forum   Help Rules Search Chat (Mux) Articles Login Register   *

* Share this topic...
In a forum
(BBCode)
In a site/blog
(HTML)


Related Topics
Subject Started by Replies Views Last post
British army ends Northern Ireland operation
Non-Religious News
RandallS 8 3341 Last post August 02, 2007, 10:12:07 am
by sailor_tech
Army gets fewer high school grads in '07
Non-Religious News
Melamphoros 2 1956 Last post July 15, 2009, 08:49:24 pm
by Ogre
Army charity hoards millions
Non-Religious News
mlr52 5 2900 Last post February 24, 2009, 12:42:53 pm
by LyricFox
Army general in Iraq says pregnant soldiers, fathers could face court-martial « 1 2 »
Social Discussion Boards
mlr52 24 10541 Last post December 25, 2009, 05:57:31 pm
by Satsekhem
EU Cookie Notice: This site uses cookies. By using this site you consent to their use.


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2008, Simple Machines
TinyPortal v0.9.8 © Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.11 seconds with 54 queries.