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Author Topic: Determining the date for Wep Renpet (the Opening of the Year) for Kemetics  (Read 22828 times)
SunflowerP
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« Reply #15: August 01, 2010, 11:14:18 am »

Thanks, Sunflower. You be tehawesome.
Aw, shucks <scuffs foot in dirt>.  (Why is there dirt on the forum floor Cheesy?)

What I really be is the kind of geeky Witch who finds astronomy more useful to my Craft than astrology.

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Bastemhet
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« Reply #16: August 03, 2010, 06:04:14 pm »

Just a note to update everybody--the navy website referred to above has changed. the new website is   http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astronomical-applications/data-services
Wep Renpet is fast approaching, for northern CA it's August 6.

I'm confused.  I actually just checked the link from the first post and it works fine.

SunflowerP's link goes to Topocentric positions, but what you want is the Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Bodies and Bright Stars like Setnakht mentions in the first post.

The link for the U.S. Cities and Towns only is here.

For all other locations you can click here.
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« Reply #17: August 03, 2010, 06:41:19 pm »

I'm confused.  I actually just checked the link from the first post and it works fine.

SunflowerP's link goes to Topocentric positions, but what you want is the Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Bodies and Bright Stars like Setnakht mentions in the first post.

The link for the U.S. Cities and Towns only is here.

For all other locations you can click here.

For those who don't want to calculate it for your area and would rather have a "standard" area for all people, I chose the location of Menefer (Memphis) since it was the first capital of Kemet (the area from which they calculated the rise of Sopdet differed depending on the time period). 

The location of Menefer is 29°50′58.8″N 31°15′15.4″E.  It is 2 hours east of Greenwich, or the UTC/GMT is +2.  I'm not accounting for leap years because this is based on the Julian calendar and unnecessary since the date is not fixed and needs to be calculated every year.

With this information, I followed the instructions from the first post and found data on the sun first, then on Sirius (Sopdet) using the same information.

For the year 2010, Sopdet rose for the first time in Menefer on July 31.
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« Reply #18: August 03, 2010, 07:58:44 pm »

I'm confused.  I actually just checked the link from the first post and it works fine.

SunflowerP's link goes to Topocentric positions, but what you want is the Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Bodies and Bright Stars like Setnakht mentions in the first post.

The link for the U.S. Cities and Towns only is here.

For all other locations you can click here.
Bastemhet, you are right! I intended to say that the new URL I provided was more direct. It simply removed one step from doing the calculation. I heard from a few people who got confused trying to follow my original instructions. (That's what I get for rushing and not checking my own post Undecided:
Data Services

Computing the times of celestial phenomena such as sunrises and sunsets is just one practical application of astronomy. Image by Susan Stewart, USNO.Rise/Set/Transit/Twilight Data
Complete Sun and Moon Data for One Day
Table of Sunrise/Sunset, Moonrise/Moonset, or Twilight Times for an Entire Year
Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Objects and Bright Stars
Duration of Daylight/Darkness Table for One Year
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« Reply #19: August 03, 2010, 08:53:09 pm »

What I really be is the kind of geeky Witch who finds astronomy more useful to my Craft than astrology.

I'm actually considering taking an astronomy course so that I can understand the hot mess that is the Kemetic calendar(s) system better.  It truly is a brain melter.
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« Reply #20: August 03, 2010, 08:54:07 pm »

Bastemhet, you are right! I intended to say that the new URL I provided was more direct. It simply removed one step from doing the calculation. I heard from a few people who got confused trying to follow my original instructions. (That's what I get for rushing and not checking my own post Undecided:

No problem!  The links I provided above should take one straight to the relevant pages.
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« Reply #21: August 04, 2010, 01:23:18 am »

I'm confused.  I actually just checked the link from the first post and it works fine.

SunflowerP's link goes to Topocentric positions, but what you want is the Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Bodies and Bright Stars like Setnakht mentions in the first post.

The link for the U.S. Cities and Towns only is here.

For all other locations you can click here.

Thank you so much for this! I've been wanting to find out the date for Wep Ronpet for my location for aaaages! For me, it'll be on August 20th Smiley
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« Reply #22: August 04, 2010, 01:32:41 am »

Thank you so much for this! I've been wanting to find out the date for Wep Ronpet for my location for aaaages! For me, it'll be on August 20th Smiley

You're welcome!  Though Setnakht is really the one who deserves the gratitude.  I wouldn't have known how had it not been for the initial post.
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SunflowerP
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« Reply #23: August 04, 2010, 11:27:16 pm »

SunflowerP's link goes to Topocentric positions, but what you want is the Rise/Set/Transit Times for Major Solar System Bodies and Bright Stars like Setnakht mentions in the first post.
Oops Embarrassed!  Thanks for fixing that.  I love the USNO site because it has info on so many things, but the downside is that there are so many things - I wasn't paying enough attention to just which of the many.

Sunflower
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« Reply #24: August 08, 2010, 12:18:30 am »

Oops Embarrassed!  Thanks for fixing that.  I love the USNO site because it has info on so many things, but the downside is that there are so many things - I wasn't paying enough attention to just which of the many.

Sunflower

No problem!  I'm sure it was amusing to those around me my frown and button clicking for twenty minutes until the "Aha!"  Grin
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« Reply #25: August 08, 2010, 08:49:42 pm »

No problem!  I'm sure it was amusing to those around me my frown and button clicking for twenty minutes until the "Aha!"  Grin

Yay, we just finished our ritual over here!  Renpet Neferet, everyone Smiley
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« Reply #26: August 09, 2010, 05:12:11 am »

Yay, we just finished our ritual over here!  Renpet Neferet, everyone Smiley

Renpet Neferet.

I actually honored the day for the first time ever this year - put out offerings last Thursday. Now I guess technically, that date would be all wrong for where I am etc. However, for years, I've not been doing anything because I couldn't figure out dates etc. I've decided to just go with DarkHawk's framework for now and do something, rather than sit around for several more years doing nothing. Guess I'm a "Sunday Kemetic" in that sense.

--Chabas
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« Reply #27: August 17, 2010, 05:55:07 pm »


Hey all- I came up with some updates that I think would be helpful to share.

If you decide that you aren't up for calculating everything every year and figuring out the astronomy part, I came up with a simply solution.  Thanks to the help of a person who contributed on my Kemetic Reconstructionism page on facebook, I found out that the Coptic Orthodox Calendar is based on the ancient Kemetic calendar and they fixed the difference in dates by following the Alexandrian reform to add a 6th epagomenal day to ameliorate for the sliding calendar.

What this means for you: in Cairo Wp Rnpt is on July 25.  Every time.  No more calculating.   Smiley  Cairo is a good place to choose also because that's where the Pesedjet with Ra at the top (the one we are probably most familiar with) was based in.

As for festival calendars, remember CttJim who was trying to make a Kemetic Calendar Generator?  He used Kerry Wisner's Eye of the Sun and Rev. Siuda's prayerbook to find the dates of all the festivals, which are now summed up on this web page.  All you have to do is start the year at Tekhy 1 which is July 25 and go from there.

As far as copyrighted information goes, the dates themselves are not protected by copyright, only the way that these authors described them.  What would have broken copyright is if he had copy pasta'd the descriptions of festivals in the authors' words, which he did not do.  The dates are considered general knowledge.

If you're following the Cairo calendar, yesterday was the feast for Anpu, and tomorrow will be the feast for Ausir.
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« Reply #28: August 17, 2010, 10:07:21 pm »


If you decide that you aren't up for calculating everything every year and figuring out the astronomy part, I came up with a simply solution.  Thanks to the help of a person who contributed on my Kemetic Reconstructionism page on facebook, I found out that the Coptic Orthodox Calendar is based on the ancient Kemetic calendar and they fixed the difference in dates by following the Alexandrian reform to add a 6th epagomenal day to ameliorate for the sliding calendar.

What this means for you: in Cairo Wp Rnpt is on July 25.  Every time.  No more calculating.   Smiley  Cairo is a good place to choose also because that's where the Pesedjet with Ra at the top (the one we are probably most familiar with) was based in.

As for festival calendars, remember CttJim who was trying to make a Kemetic Calendar Generator?  He used Kerry Wisner's Eye of the Sun and Rev. Siuda's prayerbook to find the dates of all the festivals, which are now summed up on this web page.  All you have to do is start the year at Tekhy 1 which is July 25 and go from there.

This may very well be an attractive alternative to busy people--but once you get used to doing the calculation to determine the rising of the star Sirius in your area, it really is not difficult. And I personally think it's better to KEEP the old system with its variable date for New Year because it is of pharaonic pedigree--not Coptic or Alexandrian. To adopt such an historically very late development in setting one firm date for new year goes against thousands of years of pharaonic history where the date of New Year did indeed vary. In my initial post I thought it was pretty clear how very easy it is to figure out the annual date for the rising of Sirius before twilight/dawn. Certainly not any harder than following a cookbook recipe.
As for selecting Cairo for Sirius's rising I would say that's good if you live in Egypt, or really wanted to connect in this way with the homeland of Egypt. But I also think there is value in using your own city/locale when Sirius rises before dawn. Both have merit.
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« Reply #29: August 17, 2010, 10:57:11 pm »

This may very well be an attractive alternative to busy people--but once you get used to doing the calculation to determine the rising of the star Sirius in your area, it really is not difficult.

You're right, calculating the rise of Sopdet is not that difficult.  What I do think is slightly confusing, though, is the fact that you would need to calculate when the lunar calendar begins and whether there would be an intercalary month or not.

2. Whenever Sirius rose helically in the last eleven days of the twelfth month of the previous lunar year an intercalary (additional) month was added to the new year. This thirteenth lunar month was called Djehuty (Greek name: Thoth) and was added at the beginning of the new year. This was done to avoid having the festival of Wep–renpet, "Opener of the Year" (the rising of Sirius) from falling into the first lunar month of the next year. This thirteenth month would need to be added approximately once every third year.

3. Whenever the first day of the lunar calendar would fall before the first day of the civil calendar, the intercalary (additional) month was added.

So then we celebrate the birthdays only once every third year?  Huh?  Huh

Quote
And I personally think it's better to KEEP the old system with its variable date for New Year because it is of pharaonic pedigree--not Coptic or Alexandrian. To adopt such an historically very late development in setting one firm date for new year goes against thousands of years of pharaonic history where the date of New Year did indeed vary. In my initial post I thought it was pretty clear how very easy it is to figure out the annual date for the rising of Sirius before twilight/dawn. Certainly not any harder than following a cookbook recipe.
As for selecting Cairo for Sirius's rising I would say that's good if you live in Egypt, or really wanted to connect in this way with the homeland of Egypt. But I also think there is value in using your own city/locale when Sirius rises before dawn. Both have merit.

Besides the relative ease of having to add only one day a year depending on if it was a leap year or not, the change has significance for me as well.  For the ancient Kemetics, their Beloved Land had symbolic significance, as is described in Naydler's "Temple of the Cosmos."  The land of Kemet was also the place where Zep Tepi occurred.  Kemet is the source where the wisdom of the gods comes from, the place Ra first created, the place they chose to live above all other places.  While I do love living in California, I have no such spiritual connection to it as I do to the land of our Kemetic akhu.  This is why calibrating it to Cairo would be significant to me.

As for not calculating it every time, beside the ease part, I also think that while it might be wrong to alter the dates of the spiritual days as I'm sure they had spiritual significance to the ancients as they were (they did keep a semi-flawed system for thousands of years), I also consider this a small concession to the whole "reformed" aspect of my personal Kemetic practice.  There are things that make sense for me that don't for other people, and vice versa.  While I agree with you that both decisions have merit (and I surely give props to those who are willing to do the work of the calculations and staying on top of that), I think that I would rather have more people celebrating the holy days (even if they might be a week off) than be turned off by the whole "astronomical calculation" aspect and just give it up.  

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