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Author Topic: An unhealthy mixing of church and state?  (Read 11726 times)
Black Witch
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« Reply #15: January 09, 2009, 12:33:05 pm »

You know, the level of anti-Catholic bigotry that's been present on this forum of late is starting to make me feel extremely uncomfortable.
   Smiley An unhealthy mixing of church and state is the subject. I will do my best to say conservative or right wing regions instead of just Catholic . I am just now learning that this is not just a Pagan forum and will try harder to respect your feelings.
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« Reply #16: January 09, 2009, 12:40:45 pm »

   Smiley An unhealthy mixing of church and state is the subject. I will do my best to say conservative or right wing regions instead of just Catholic . I am just now learning that this is not just a Pagan forum and will try harder to respect your feelings.

Even as a Pagan, I find religious bigotry uncomfortable - wherever it comes from or is aimed at.

If it can't be said in public, why does it need saying at all?
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« Reply #17: January 09, 2009, 02:45:48 pm »

Even as a Pagan, I find religious bigotry uncomfortable - wherever it comes from or is aimed at.

If it can't be said in public, why does it need saying at all?
       I agree with you. Pagan or not. I am not aware of any one on this forum”… who holds blindly and intolerantly to a particular creed, opinion, etc…”- Webster’s New World College Dictionary.   
I will adjust my tone and respect the Catholic lady’s felling who felt uncomfortable  .In a perfect world or if I were even close to being perfect my words would be the same no matter who heard them. Have you not changed your over all tone when you discovered someone else was listening and you didn’t want to make them uncomfortable? I am tiring to adjust to a forum and to people I never met. Please give me the benefit of doubt. I am Pagan and I love our Mother Earth. What more do you need to know? PS- If you see any bigots let me know.
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« Reply #18: January 09, 2009, 03:04:38 pm »

I am Pagan and I love our Mother Earth. What more do you need to know?

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this tells us nothing about you except that you're Pagan and you love the earth. That doesn't exclude you being a member of NAMBLA, or the KKK, or from voting "Yes on 8," or from hating all of mankind.

For that matter, you could be a kind of Pagan that practices ritualized human sacrifices to ensure the earth's fertility. How would we know?
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« Reply #19: January 09, 2009, 03:05:26 pm »

I am Pagan and I love our Mother Earth. What more do you need to know?

So...being a pagan means you're automaticaly a Good Person?
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« Reply #20: January 09, 2009, 04:58:48 pm »

So...being a pagan means you're automaticaly a Good Person?

of course it does.  Just like every person who has ever commented to me about someone being a christian, as a way of telling me that that person was honest and reliable and I should hire them as a babysitter.  THey never said good christian, they just said christian. 

and no, there's no sarcasm at all in this.


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« Reply #21: January 09, 2009, 05:38:09 pm »

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this tells us nothing about you except that you're Pagan and you love the earth. That doesn't exclude you being a member of NAMBLA, or the KKK, or from voting "Yes on 8," or from hating all of mankind.


   Tongue  I did not mean to, in any way, imply that being Pagan and loving our Mother Earth means that you would have no reason to know anything (by “anything” I mean philosophy wise {not wise from the word wick i.e. that which carries the flame through the night and or darkness}, on a mental realm and to include observable behavior etc, as opposed to physical magnifications about me.) I was attempting to offer a point of “ X” beginning. Comes now Dewduster a pagan witch ( from the word “wick” et al ) who does love the Mother Earth, even though I did just this last night (~2135) falsely tell my soul mate of 25 years that I was   Lips sealed ... whatever.  If I have now told you more then you want to know forgive me. I have yet to figure out how to communicate with you in a mannor that would get what I would fell was a little tiney bit nice. ("... a member of NAMBLA, or the KKK, or from voting "Yes on 8," or from hating all of mankind.For that matter, you could be a kind of Pagan that practices ritualized human sacrifices to ensure the earth's fertility. .." Ans. is NO.   Blesed Be
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« Reply #22: January 09, 2009, 05:38:34 pm »

I will do my best to say conservative or right wing regions instead of just Catholic . I am just now learning that this is not just a Pagan forum and will try harder to respect your feelings.

Even if every member and viewer of this board were a Pagan, the hosts still would not tolerate religious bigotry or groundless attacks on other religions. Generalized attacks on other religions (e.g. "religion X is terrible") are almost always false. Besides, other religions don't have to be "bad" to justify my religious choices.
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« Reply #23: January 09, 2009, 05:43:07 pm »

   Tongue  I did not mean to, in any way, imply that being Pagan and loving our Mother Earth means that you would have no reason to know anything (by “anything” I mean philosophy wise {not wise from the word wick i.e. that which carries the flame through the night and or darkness}, on a mental realm and to include observable behavior etc, as opposed to physical magnifications about me.) I was attempting to offer a point of “ X” beginning. Comes now Dewduster a pagan witch ( from the word “wick” et al ) who does love the Mother Earth, even though I did just this last night (~2135) falsely tell my soul mate of 25 years that I was   Lips sealed ... whatever.  If I have now told you more then you want to know forgive me. I have yet to figure out how to communicate with you in a mannor that would get what I would fell was a little tiney bit nice. ("... a member of NAMBLA, or the KKK, or from voting "Yes on 8," or from hating all of mankind.For that matter, you could be a kind of Pagan that practices ritualized human sacrifices to ensure the earth's fertility. .." Ans. is NO.   Blesed Be

Say WHAT?

I can't even begin to figure out what you're trying to say there.  And what's with the wick references?  Wicca doesn't come from the word wick.
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« Reply #24: January 09, 2009, 07:10:49 pm »

of course it does.  Just like every person who has ever commented to me about someone being a christian, as a way of telling me that that person was honest and reliable and I should hire them as a babysitter.  THey never said good christian, they just said christian. 

and no, there's no sarcasm at all in this.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noted the positive intent and understood the poster's intent perfectly well thefirst time round. I've always had a similiar opinion to continuing to attack someone who has acknowledged their error and is making overtures of peace as I have towards religious bigotry. If anything it can be a little worse; bigotry is often unthinking (doesn't excuse it, but I think a reasonobly true observation) the other smacks of rubbing salt into wounds and has an air of gloating about it that makes me uncomfortable. YMMV.
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« Reply #25: January 09, 2009, 07:31:35 pm »

You know, the level of anti-Catholic bigotry that's been present on this forum of late is starting to make me feel extremely uncomfortable.


Noted. It would be wiser for me to avoid threads related to Abrahamic religious institutions. I have similar biases with regard to Islam.
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« Reply #26: January 09, 2009, 08:40:12 pm »

Say WHAT?

I can't even begin to figure out what you're trying to say there.  And what's with the wick references?  Wicca doesn't come from the word wick.
------ Grin  The word wise comes from the word wick ( think of a light bulb over a caricature’s head. The image is one of a smart/wise idea- only they didn’t have light bulbs so they used candles. Think about it.) Most people know that the word witch comes from the word wise but few know the root of the word wise and it’s English link is in fact wic that part of the candle that carries the flame .                                           

In ye old English the word witch was Wiccan = plural, many- both male and female 
                                                              Wicca= male witch
                                                              Wicce= female witch
 Stores devoted to women in old England were referred to as Ye Shopee  to denote it was for women and shoppa for men.  Smiley

I’m Wiccan because my extended family is both male and female, plus two that are happy being gay.

Maybe some one can please explain to me why one group refers to there members as “Wicca” when some members are female. I am not in any way trying to be sarcastic. I admit that I am ignorant and truly want to know. Thank you in advance.

 
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« Reply #27: January 09, 2009, 08:48:03 pm »

Maybe some one can please explain to me why one group refers to there members as “Wicca” when some members are female. I am not in any way trying to be sarcastic. I admit that I am ignorant and truly want to know. Thank you in advance.

Either your Old English is wrong or Gerald Gardner's was.  Or both.  I personally don't know any Old English so I can't say, but it's probably one of those Smiley
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« Reply #28: January 09, 2009, 08:50:31 pm »

Say WHAT?

I can't even begin to figure out what you're trying to say there.  And what's with the wick references?  Wicca doesn't come from the word wick.

(I had a guess about the "wick" part here, but by the time I finished replying Dewduster had explained it.  I was wrong.)

As for the rest of it, though, my reading is that Dewduster would like to try to communicate better (and less offensively) with us, but is having trouble getting his metaphorical balance after a bad beginning.  He was offering being Pagan and loving the Earth simply as a starting point (although I'll admit I'm unclear about what it's a starting point for), not necessarily as an indication that we ought to think any particular thing about him, if I'm reading that right.  (I would venture to suggest that he accidentally stumbled onto another forum hot-button when he perhaps unintentionally linked paganism in general with something that suggests an earth-based religion.)  He appears confused by the way what he feels are efforts to engage in conversation are being met with hostility.

I can't entirely agree with Marc; I think there's good reason for some of that hostility, and I think that it's difficult to accept someone's attempts to make amends when they continue to say the same sort of things that led to the hostility in the first place.  I understand why people are reacting the way they are.  However, I do think that it might not hurt anyone who's feeling overly frustrated by this (on either side) to take a step back and a few deep breaths before continuing.  I don't think that the situation is going to get any better if it keeps going the way it is, and I suspect it might just get worse.  I think a little time to cool down would do us all some good in any case.
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« Reply #29: January 09, 2009, 09:08:18 pm »

I can't entirely agree with Marc; I think there's good reason for some of that hostility

I'm sorry if I painted with too broad a brush (I was ten minutes out of bed with my first coffeee still on the go;)). I understand that some people just can't take a hint; are willfully ignorant; just don't improve their communication fast enough; etc. and that it can get very tiring over the months and years. Especially when it's on topics that marginalise or blithely ignore one's one spiritual and experiential concerns.

I genuinely sort to comment on a behaviour that I think shares a lot in common with religious bigotry when taken as a Platonic ideal; there is was no intention to transfer that to any particular poster without taking account of the particulars of their experiences, values and the actual conversation. I'm sorry if it came over as arrogantly judgemental or blunt.
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