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Author Topic: Witch Bottles  (Read 10779 times)
RandallS
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« Reply #15: May 04, 2007, 10:45:57 pm »

How is that different from "sympathetic" magic?  Or is it a subset of sympathetic magic?

The law of sympathy states that that similar things are connected. Sprinkling water on the ground from a watering can is similar to rain falling on the ground, so sprinkling water on the ground as part of a spell to cause rain would be using the law of sympathy.
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« Reply #16: May 04, 2007, 10:51:46 pm »

The law of sympathy states that that similar things are connected. Sprinkling water on the ground from a watering can is similar to rain falling on the ground, so sprinkling water on the ground as part of a spell to cause rain would be using the law of sympathy.

Oh, OK.  Contagion is where the thing was once actually a part of the person/thing being targeted.  Sympathy is where the thing is similar to the person/thing being targeted.
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« Reply #17: May 04, 2007, 10:52:54 pm »

Contagion is where the thing was once actually a part of the person/thing being targeted.  Sympathy is where the thing is similar to the person/thing being targeted.

You've got it.
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« Reply #18: May 05, 2007, 03:28:42 am »

\
I suppose you could say that, but magic can't blatantly ignore what science says.

Whyever not?  I'm with Mandi and Fausta:  a lot of magic -- maybe even most magic -- especially old-school folk magic, is predicated on symbolism and linkages (which are determined by culture).  About the only types of spells I can think of that might have anything resembling "scientific reality" are those spells that involve a woman working some of her menstrual blood or vaginal fluids into a prospective lover's food, which is pretty straight-up pheremones.  I agree with Fausta that your wanting magic to hook up with science is a personal belief -- not that there's anything wrong with that -- rather than some kind of immutable law of how magic is supposed to operate. 

As for blood and urine, as Mandi said, those substances carry *serious* symbolic weight; blood or piss means something very different than, like hair or skin cells or whatever.  You slice your hand open (or yank out a tampon) to get some blood, that's a bigger deal than just plucking a hair from your head.  You pee into a bottle, that's messy and dirty and nasty.  It kicks into some vivid primal ideas.  In a witch bottle, you are marking your territory, with your blood and pee, just like an animal would.  It's tough and mean, and it's serious.  If you get the same charge from scraping a few skin cells from your arm, more power to you -- if you're in a magical tradition that sees the "stuff" of spells as simply tools to focus your concentration or will through, that might work.  But there are a number of traditions -- including a lot of the folk magic where things like witch bottles spring up -- where the actual substance is, in itself, inherently powerful (because of those cultural symbolisms, and every now and again, something tht might look scientific).  In those traditions, the fact that it *is* blood or urine matters.  If you want to practice that kind of magic, then yeah, you need those substances.  Does that make sense?  I feel like I'm talking in circles a little.   Smiley
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« Reply #19: May 05, 2007, 03:52:55 am »

Wouldn't it be more effective to put in a bit of yourself with DNA?

Not gonna touch on the DNA thing, which has been dealt with already.  It would be more effective for you, if you're convinced that it would.  If you feel that this method is weak, the spell may not work for you.  Fausta, Catja and others have touched on the symbolic thing already.  If it feels potent to you, your Will will focus more effectively.  Beliefs can limit or permit.  In Chaos magic belief is deliberately changed when belief is limiting.  For example, believing someone needs your dna might be great when setting up wards, because you already have a belief going of 'it'll be tough for them to touch me.'  When it comes to targeting someone, you may want to ditch that belief.

As Catja has said, the witch bottle is very primal.  If I recall correctly rusty nails are sometimes included too.  It's basically a big bottle of nasty, which even the caster might feel repelled by.  Spells that kick off powerful emotions will be similarly powered. Smiley
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« Reply #20: May 05, 2007, 04:32:00 am »

If I recall correctly rusty nails are sometimes included too.  It's basically a big bottle of nasty, which even the caster might feel repelled by.

Big bottle of nasty, yes indeed. Rusty nails, worn out razor blades, broken glass, raw eggs (those will turn very nasty), barbed wire - all these and more can be used in a witch bottle. Making one, "I feel sick!" is more of a boost than a hindrance.

There are modern versions of the witch bottle theme, going more for the "bottled spell" idea and these can be quite different from the traditional ones in contents and appearance.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2007, 04:39:53 am by Fausta, Reason: Removed a line that somehow got doubled. » Logged

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« Reply #21: May 05, 2007, 08:19:17 am »



But, if I understood the article correctly, there are different versions of the bottle. One that mirrors the evil and reflects it to the sender, another that absorbs it (which is the version I'm going for), and another that transforms the evil into good.



There seems to be some usage crossover between witches ball and witches bottle.  A Witches Ball I would use to draw in loose bits of negative energy, filtering it and returning it to circulation.  I wouldn't put anything in it, since I got mine retail, and complete as a carnival glass sphere with spirals blown into it on the inside and the outside.  There are also  *stalactites* made of glass inside.  http://www.whiteelks.com/witchball.htm these are sort of like it, only not purple, or carnival glass.

The intent of this bit is to attract the energy/ attention of anything wandering around looking to get into things and they will become trapped inside.  *ooohhh pretty glass* and once they're in, they cant get out.

Another version of this does involve using tag locks from a person suspecting that they are the subject of another persons negative energy.  I suppose the identifying characteristics - the persons "scent" would be in the bottle and attract the negative energy of the sender, trapping it inside the bottle.  (sympathetic magic, my hair, blood, urine inside the bottle makes it a sort of 'poppet' of me, thus attracting a potion of the energy that is directed at me.)

A witches bottle, in it's more common usage, in modern magic is a bit of nasty designed to place an enforced barrier between you and the person it was created against.

You could actually do all the same spells without the glass containers, but I doubt a witches envelope would hold in the things you wanted to put in it.  Reminds me of the time I mailed my cousin worms for being the *joy* that he is.  Unfortunately they got smushed on the way and I was accused of sending my first 'witches bottle' at about seven.   Wink

That and unless you set the envelope on fire and leave it on someones doorstep, it doesn't have the same effect if when all else fails you throw it at your target because you got tired of waiting for it to work.
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« Reply #22: May 05, 2007, 10:06:37 am »

if you're in a magical tradition that sees the "stuff" of spells as simply tools to focus your concentration or will through, that might work.  But there are a number of traditions -- including a lot of the folk magic where things like witch bottles spring up -- where the actual substance is, in itself, inherently powerful (because of those cultural symbolisms, and every now and again, something tht might look scientific).  In those traditions, the fact that it *is* blood or urine matters.  If you want to practice that kind of magic, then yeah, you need those substances.  Does that make sense?  I feel like I'm talking in circles a little.   Smiley


Yes, that does make sense. I do see the stuff of spells as tools to focus will. In my little theory of magic I have in my head, if I were focused or powerful enough, I wouldn't need tools at all. That said, some things focus will better than others, so I'm starting to agree that blood and urine are more effective than less nasty things, but only because they have a higher emotional significance.
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« Reply #23: May 05, 2007, 10:57:23 am »


There seems to be some usage crossover between witches ball and witches bottle.  A Witches Ball I would use to draw in loose bits of negative energy, filtering it and returning it to circulation.  I wouldn't put anything in it, since I got mine retail, and complete as a carnival glass sphere with spirals blown into it on the inside and the outside.  There are also  *stalactites* made of glass inside.  http://www.whiteelks.com/witchball.htm these are sort of like it, only not purple, or carnival glass.

It's interesting explaining to visitors why you have a glass ball hanging in your house lol
Luckily it's pretty - and bizarrely, was a present from probably the least 'witchy' friend I have. But it was a much appreciated gift Smiley
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« Reply #24: May 05, 2007, 11:08:05 am »

It's interesting explaining to visitors why you have a glass ball hanging in your house lol
Luckily it's pretty - and bizarrely, was a present from probably the least 'witchy' friend I have. But it was a much appreciated gift Smiley

Weirdly, most people never even notice mine.  it's hanging from one of the lights on a ceiling fan in my living room.  The pull for the fan is a gold beaded tassel though, so I guess that might be why.  It sort of captures your eye more than the ball.

I keep it hung, just because it's nearly impossible to keep a glass ball whole and unshattered any other way.  Set it on a counter, watch it roll onto the floor...  *cry*
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And I'm gonna tell my son to be a prophet of mistakes
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Till he learns to let his hair down far enough to climb outside.
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« Reply #25: May 05, 2007, 11:27:42 am »


I keep it hung, just because it's nearly impossible to keep a glass ball whole and unshattered any other way.  Set it on a counter, watch it roll onto the floor...  *cry*
ouch!! poor you!

yeah we're in a rented place, and the only hook already in the ceiling was where people WILL see it. Oh well - chances are anyone coming round here already knows none of us living here would pass a normality test lol
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« Reply #26: May 05, 2007, 09:32:38 pm »

Definately not blood, and most probably not urine, which were two of the examples given and the ones most easily available to females.
Yes, but now that we *do* know, wouldn't it be more affective?

The red blood cells do not have DNA, however the white blood cells do. It is how blood is typed.

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