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Author Topic: Texas Public Schools Required to Teach Bible This Year  (Read 20252 times)
Inca
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« Reply #45: August 23, 2009, 07:08:21 am »

Considering you can't really understand American lit, especially American Lit from the south, without a firm grounding in Biblical references, belief isn't required.
I agree with that but the way it's worded really implies that making kids believe is there as a very important alterior motive. And that I find not very comforting.
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« Reply #46: August 23, 2009, 07:45:07 am »

Yeah, but what I'm thinking about in a college setting probably wouldn't even be a classroom situation. I'm thinking more along the lines of a chapel (I think there was a University of Maryland issue a couple of years ago?) or a requirement to attend a prayer breakfast sort of thing (I think VMI got nailed there).

Difference is mandatory participation in religious prayer event, even in college. Also the setting of VMI is closer to work than to college in some ways.

It's not the same as required reading of parts of the bible for a college class that needs the bible to understand the course material.
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« Reply #47: August 23, 2009, 09:43:14 am »

Difference is mandatory participation in religious prayer event, even in college. Also the setting of VMI is closer to work than to college in some ways.

It's not the same as required reading of parts of the bible for a college class that needs the bible to understand the course material.

I know. I was just telling Randall those were the examples I was thinking of for a college setting.
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« Reply #48: August 23, 2009, 12:56:14 pm »

Oh?  Can you provide some info on how John Adams was opposed to Christianity?

Here's a few:

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"

"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses."

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"

"Cabalistic Christianity, which is Catholic Christianity, and which has prevailed for 1,500 years, has received a mortal wound, of which the monster must finally die. Yet so strong is his constitution, that he may endure for centuries before he expires."
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, July 16, 1814

"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson

An excerpt from the Treaty of Tripoli which was unanimously approved by the US Senate, the first treaty ever signed with a foreign nation under the Constitution and was under Adams' presidency:

""As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen [Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries....
     "The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

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« Reply #49: August 23, 2009, 01:53:32 pm »


First site http://www.adherents.com/people/pa/John_Adams.html I found via Google since I erased my electronic copy of "Founding Faith".

Adams was opposed to certain problems within Christianity, not to Christianity in general. Also note that a bunch of the quotes you gave are more anti-Catholic than anti-Christian.

Although to be fair, he was a Unitarian which is now (not sure about then) considerred non-Christian.
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« Reply #50: August 23, 2009, 02:18:54 pm »


Kitsune,

Please remember that our rules do not allow you to edit posts for the purposes of changing the content more than 2-3 minutes after they've been posted.  (That 2-3 minutes is the time allowed between when the original post goes up and when the edit is put into effect, not the time when you begin the edit, just in case there was some confusion there.)  There are a couple of posts in this thread that you've edited a bit on the late side, and that can disrupt the conversation.  If you need to make a correction or add information, please just make a new post.

Thanks.
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« Reply #51: August 23, 2009, 02:25:33 pm »

That just sounds scarier. I plan on taking Bible as Lit as an elective at my highschool, and am just hoping the teacher intends to actually teach it as only literature. The idea of it being worked into other courses...I really wish more people would acknowledge the religious diversity we have in this country.

FWIW, my high school taught Bible-as-lit as part of our required literature courses.  (Really as literature, as "this is what some people believe and how it's influenced our culture", not as "this is what you should believe".)  Senior year, we also looked at the Koran, the Rig Veda, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Upanishads, etc., etc.; we also did various forms of mythology multiple years, and even the Bible-as-lit parts covered both Christianity and Judaism.  Teaching the Bible as literature does not automatically mean that no other religious literature is being taught, or that diversity is not being recognized.

...That said, again, that's on a general basis.  I recognize that this specific situation in Texas is different.  Your comment seemed to be more general, though, hence the general response.  Wink
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« Reply #52: August 23, 2009, 03:15:02 pm »

Kitsune,

Please remember that our rules do not allow you to edit posts for the purposes of changing the content more than 2-3 minutes after they've been posted.  (That 2-3 minutes is the time allowed between when the original post goes up and when the edit is put into effect, not the time when you begin the edit, just in case there was some confusion there.)  There are a couple of posts in this thread that you've edited a bit on the late side, and that can disrupt the conversation.  If you need to make a correction or add information, please just make a new post.

Thanks.

That's an interesting rule, sorry I didn't know about it. One post I simply edited for a spelling mistake (guess I should have marked that as Edit: Spelling mistake). The second one I put as an aside (Edit Update:) which I am used to from other forums, I will stop doing it, apologies.

To continue the conversation.
That is interesting then what you all have said about colleges. Because when registering for classes, at my old university, outside of religious studies courses, classes were always marked as when religion was going to be discusses at all that way students could decide if they wanted to take the class. So I always assumed it applied to public universities as well (which are under the guidance of the state -government-) since warnings were always issued.
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« Reply #53: August 28, 2009, 07:04:32 pm »

FWIW, my high school taught Bible-as-lit as part of our required literature courses.  (Really as literature, as "this is what some people believe and how it's influenced our culture", not as "this is what you should believe".)  Senior year, we also looked at the Koran, the Rig Veda, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Upanishads, etc., etc.; we also did various forms of mythology multiple years, and even the Bible-as-lit parts covered both Christianity and Judaism.  Teaching the Bible as literature does not automatically mean that no other religious literature is being taught, or that diversity is not being recognized.

...That said, again, that's on a general basis.  I recognize that this specific situation in Texas is different.  Your comment seemed to be more general, though, hence the general response.  Wink

That sounds really intersting. I wish I had the opportunity to study more than just the Bible in high school, but unfortunately I can't.
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« Reply #54: September 07, 2009, 05:35:52 pm »


For an update:

Schools Not Instructed HOW to Teach Bible Literacy

Can of worms, meet can opener.
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« Reply #55: September 07, 2009, 06:12:28 pm »

For an update:

Schools Not Instructed HOW to Teach Bible Literacy

Can of worms, meet can opener.

Ryan,

It's Texas. We never fund training. LOL

But yeah. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
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« Reply #56: September 07, 2009, 06:42:23 pm »

Ryan,

It's Texas. We never fund training. LOL

But yeah. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

This is going to explode in just about every way possible.  No guidelines from the state give me the impression that every possible way this could cause a problem will happen.
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« Reply #57: September 07, 2009, 06:57:09 pm »

This is going to explode in just about every way possible.  No guidelines from the state give me the impression that every possible way this could cause a problem will happen.

Oh yeah. It will be a problem. You can take it to the bank. And the guy who proposed it? He's a good fundie. He's done this sort of thing before.
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« Reply #58: September 07, 2009, 07:39:41 pm »

Oh yeah. It will be a problem. You can take it to the bank. And the guy who proposed it? He's a good fundie. He's done this sort of thing before.

To bad you don't have a few Jewish teachers doing this course in the smaller schools.  Putting a Jewish spin on books like Ruth would really mess up the kid's parents opinions about having Bible taught as religion in public schools. 

My friends daughter is seeing material from the Tanakh being taught as literature, but the spin is Christian and is very different than what she learned in shul.
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« Reply #59: September 07, 2009, 07:42:35 pm »

To bad you don't have a few Jewish teachers doing this course in the smaller schools.  Putting a Jewish spin on books like Ruth would really mess up the kid's parents opinions about having Bible taught as religion in public schools. 

My friends daughter is seeing material from the Tanakh being taught as literature, but the spin is Christian and is very different than what she learned in shul.


as an aside note, just knowing about books like ruth from the christian spin, do you have any good links for the jewish spin on those?
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