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Author Topic: Porn & Paganism  (Read 24826 times)
SunflowerP
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« Reply #45: October 15, 2009, 11:48:07 pm »

Hi, Borin - don't forget to quote when you're replying in a thread.  Thanks!

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« Reply #46: October 17, 2009, 09:19:11 pm »

I see pornography as a matter of personal conscience, Pagans of many beliefs celebrate the arts and acts of sex as a part of their worship, and there are less barriers given unlike some of the faiths already mentioned. As long as it is with consenting adults only I have never seen any problems sexual acts.

That's pretty much my thinking!
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« Reply #47: October 18, 2009, 01:04:27 pm »

I'm sort of new in paganism and there are still lots of things I don't know about it and that I'm trying to find out.
I really need to know what is the position and point of view of paganism (wiccans, feri tradition followers, etc.) towards pornography, and I'm not talking about just watching it but more like making it or being part of it... Religions like Judaism, Catholicism and Islamism are pretty clear about letting you know that porn is wrong and evil; personally I don't believe so, and I'd really like to know what paganism thinks about it.

This is going to just be my personal opinion about it, but even though I don't think people should shy away from sex, discussing it and so forth, porn is definitely corrupt. Especially certain types of porn, like child pornography. The porn industry makes money off of how many people watch it. And the people in the porn videos, that's mostly all an act.
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« Reply #48: October 18, 2009, 01:47:15 pm »

The porn industry makes money off of how many people watch it. And the people in the porn videos, that's mostly all an act.

So  you don't go to the movies either?  Because acting!  Acting is bad!  And they make money off how many people watch it!

... I mean, what?
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« Reply #49: October 18, 2009, 01:55:43 pm »

So  you don't go to the movies either?  Because acting!  Acting is bad!  And they make money off how many people watch it!

... I mean, what?

lol, actually that's not what I meant.

I just mean that porn was a terrible thing because the people there are just forced into doing what they are doing. It's all an act. They aren't actually enjoying what they are doing. That's all I meant. And the more people watch it, the more porn is going to be made...so yeah...
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 01:58:39 pm by Lovesdalionking, Reason: Probably still not clear in my point » Logged
Darkhawk
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« Reply #50: October 18, 2009, 01:59:07 pm »

I just mean that porn was a terrible thing because the people there are just forced into doing what they are doing. It's all an act. They aren't actually enjoying what they are doing. That's all I meant.

Funny, the porn star I know only does porn that depicts sex she likes.  She's exactly as "forced" as any other actor.

Edited to add: Seriously, the legit porn industry is required to keep reams of paperwork on file about legal adulthood and consent stuff.  Section 2257 Compliance and all.  The idea that porn actors are "forced into doing things" is something that many porn actors take as an insult to their intelligence and agency.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 02:01:24 pm by Darkhawk » Logged

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« Reply #51: October 18, 2009, 02:08:25 pm »

Funny, the porn star I know only does porn that depicts sex she likes.  She's exactly as "forced" as any other actor.

Edited to add: Seriously, the legit porn industry is required to keep reams of paperwork on file about legal adulthood and consent stuff.  Section 2257 Compliance and all.  The idea that porn actors are "forced into doing things" is something that many porn actors take as an insult to their intelligence and agency.

Hmm that might be true in some cases, but what about child pornography? Aren't they forced into doing those things? Is that idea an insult to them if they are forced into doing these things?

And I probably should have just told the truth that I don't really know crud about porn, I just watched it and maybe a read a few resources. I'm sorry, I just wanted to be part of a discussion, and I apologize for offending you in anyway, but you know what, when all is said and done with porn, it really does destroy you more then it helps you. And I guess that's all I will say in this topic.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2009, 02:30:01 pm by Lovesdalionking » Logged
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« Reply #52: October 18, 2009, 03:02:42 pm »

Hmm that might be true in some cases, but what about child pornography? Aren't they forced into doing those things? Is that idea an insult to them if they are forced into doing these things?


Well, considering that child pornography is illegal, yeah, I would say they are being forced.  But that's a whole nother subject, we're talking about legal porn or at least that was the impression I had.
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Darkhawk
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« Reply #53: October 18, 2009, 03:27:32 pm »

Hmm that might be true in some cases, but what about child pornography? Aren't they forced into doing those things? Is that idea an insult to them if they are forced into doing these things?

Criminals do criminal things.  News at eleven.
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« Reply #54: October 19, 2009, 08:44:30 pm »

And I probably should have just told the truth that I don't really know crud about porn, I just watched it and maybe a read a few resources. I'm sorry, I just wanted to be part of a discussion, and I apologize for offending you in anyway, but you know what, when all is said and done with porn, it really does destroy you more then it helps you. And I guess that's all I will say in this topic.
Well, most of the "offendedness" is for the usual reason people get "offended" on TC:  stating as fact things that are actually opinion.  F'ex, the bit I bolded in the quote.  I'm not asking you to cite sources on that, because I have a pretty good idea what those sources would be - I'd rather ask you to talk about why you believe them to be reliable sources.

Are there practices that are sometimes involved in the making of porn that are coercive, degrading, and destructive?  Yes.  Is it possible to make porn without those particular practices?  Also yes - and there's a growing body of porn-makers that are scrupulous in avoiding those practices.  In general, the anti-porn activists' position is that, because it can be done abusively, it shouldn't be done at all - which is quite a lot like arguing that, because a car can be driven irresponsibly, the driving of cars shouldn't be done at all.

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« Reply #55: October 19, 2009, 08:56:42 pm »

Hmm that might be true in some cases, but what about child pornography? Aren't they forced into doing those things? Is that idea an insult to them if they are forced into doing these things?

And I probably should have just told the truth that I don't really know crud about porn, I just watched it and maybe a read a few resources. I'm sorry, I just wanted to be part of a discussion, and I apologize for offending you in anyway, but you know what, when all is said and done with porn, it really does destroy you more then it helps you. And I guess that's all I will say in this topic.

Lovesdalionking,

You have edited this post twenty minutes after posting.  Note that according to site rules, you can only edit post in a window of 2-3 minutes after posting.

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« Reply #56: October 23, 2009, 10:30:40 pm »

Well, most of the "offendedness" is for the usual reason people get "offended" on TC:  stating as fact things that are actually opinion.  F'ex, the bit I bolded in the quote.  I'm not asking you to cite sources on that, because I have a pretty good idea what those sources would be - I'd rather ask you to talk about why you believe them to be reliable sources.

Are there practices that are sometimes involved in the making of porn that are coercive, degrading, and destructive?  Yes.  Is it possible to make porn without those particular practices?  Also yes - and there's a growing body of porn-makers that are scrupulous in avoiding those practices.  In general, the anti-porn activists' position is that, because it can be done abusively, it shouldn't be done at all - which is quite a lot like arguing that, because a car can be driven irresponsibly, the driving of cars shouldn't be done at all.

Sunflower

I don't know what you mean by your opinion saying that porn can be done abusively. Tell me, where can I find where porn isn't done abusively?

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You have edited this post twenty minutes after posting.  Note that according to site rules, you can only edit post in a window of 2-3 minutes after posting.

I apologize, but I assure you, I was just editing mistakes and putting more info to make myself more clear. I wasn't attempting to get out of trouble or anything like that, if that's why the rule is set up.
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Marilyn (ABSENTMINDED)
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« Reply #57: October 23, 2009, 10:38:36 pm »

I apologize, but I assure you, I was just editing mistakes and putting more info to make myself more clear. I wasn't attempting to get out of trouble or anything like that, if that's why the rule is set up.

The rule is set up because this is a rather active board, and anyone who read that thread in the twenty minutes before your edit was applied won't see that additional info.  The next time they came into the thread they would be taken to the first unread post.

Correcting typos is fine, and there is a 'reason for edit' box where you can say that that is all you did, but adding or modifying information means making a new post, just so we are all having the same conversation and nobody misses anything.  We don't object to multiple posts by the same user when new information is being put up - we do object to missing information because of long edit times.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

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« Reply #58: October 23, 2009, 11:36:42 pm »

I don't know what you mean by your opinion saying that porn can be done abusively. Tell me, where can I find where porn isn't done abusively?

Any legitimate porn producer in the United States will have 2257 forms (verifying age of performers) and extensive contracts for the actors covering what they will and will not do; this is a federal law, and the enforcement against porn companies is strong.  People who are making porn films apparently have agencies that they will go to where they can say, "We're looking for an actor who's willing to sign up for X, Y, Z" and get lists of people to ring up.  Actors keep current STD test results and, apparently, swap them before they get down to filming.  And in the event that someone is treated badly, because porn is legal, the actors can go to the cops.

This is the basic standard for commercially produced heterosexual porn, at least in California.  It did not used to be this way, but these days people who break contractual limits, expose actors to risk, and so on are pretty damn likely to go out of business because there are plenty of jobs to be had with people who aren't assholes, and this is general knowledge in the legit parts of the industry.  Unscrupulous types may go to other areas where there is less general knowledge; if you're concerned about that sort of thing you may want to stick with California-based companies.  I wouldn't know about selecting porn, because I find other people's sex somewhere between boring and annoying.
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« Reply #59: October 24, 2009, 12:22:55 am »

I don't know what you mean by your opinion saying that porn can be done abusively. Tell me, where can I find where porn isn't done abusively?
That's a sticky one; you're under 18, so telling you by pointing you straight to it is a potential legal can of worms.  (This situation is a good example of why I think those legalities aren't being handled well - IMO, young people have no less of a right than adults to accurate info.  But there it is.)

But I can point you to Renegade Evolution's blog - it's often not what a lot of folks would consider suitable for under-18s (so you'll probably want to be cautious when checking it out), but it's not porn in and of itself.  She's who Darkhawk mentioned above:

Funny, the porn star I know only does porn that depicts sex she likes.  She's exactly as "forced" as any other actor.
... and she has a lot to say about the subject - both about ethical, non-abusive porn, and about porn that is made unethically (which, as you might expect, she's very strongly against).

I see that Scarleteen has a pretty good overview on the subject of porn - and also tags for "erotica", "porn", and "pornography", so there's probably plenty to check out.

More generally, quite a lot of the amateur porn on the internet is non-abusive; it's just people doing what they enjoy doing, and sharing that with others (which they also enjoy doing).  Most lesbian porn - porn made by lesbians for lesbians - is non-abusive.  There are increasing numbers of porn producers, like Tony Comstock, who are scrupulous about making only ethical, non-abusive, fully-consensual porn.

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