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Author Topic: Free style poem  (Read 4133 times)
Star
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« Reply #15: August 28, 2009, 11:46:32 am »

if it's not on the page, it's not there.  You can't explain it to the reader.

This is exactly what I'm trying to say.  Unbendingwill, what you're saying as you explain stuff does make sense to some degree, but it doesn't click until you explain it.  That's the problem I'm trying to get at here--the poem needs to be able to stand without your explanation around it, and right now it just doesn't.  There needs to be enough of this stuff in the poem itself that you don't have to explain it all to us.  Right now you're just dropping in images and emotions, and while that does give us a fuzzy picture of what's happening, it doesn't necessarily convey the train of thought or the substance behind the poetry.
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Star
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« Reply #16: August 28, 2009, 11:55:36 am »

I thought what Star was saying was well thought out, insightful, and intelligent.  I enjoyed her critique very much. 

While I'm glad that you found my critique useful, and flattered by your and Shadow's praise...  The thing is, critique is not always going to be something you enjoy.  That you did not enjoy it does not make it less useful.  (And, in fact, that you did enjoy it doesn't make it more useful either.  I mean, when someone reads something of mine, I always like hearing that they like it.  But if that's all they say--"I liked it"--that's actually extremely unuseful critique even though I enjoyed hearing it.  It gives me warm fuzzies, which is great, but doesn't help me improve my work at all.)

I think if this is something you're really wanting to do, you're going to have to come to grips with the idea that not all the feedback you get will be the sort I'm giving you in this thread.  Sometimes it will be short and blunt, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, sometimes long and detailed--sometimes it'll just be "I liked it" or "I don't like it", with no real clarification.  Other than outright name-calling and personal insults, though, every form of feedback can be useful in its own way.  And if it's outright name-calling and personal insults (which, in this case, darashand's response was certainly not), then there's no point in wasting your time and energy raging at it.  Throw the comment out and move on.  You know?  If it's not at that level, it's probably worth listening to and considering, even if you don't ultimately agree with it or didn't like how it was said.
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« Reply #17: August 28, 2009, 03:00:17 pm »

While I'm glad that you found my critique useful, and flattered by your and Shadow's praise...  The thing is, critique is not always going to be something you enjoy.  That you did not enjoy it does not make it less useful.  (And, in fact, that you did enjoy it doesn't make it more useful either.  I mean, when someone reads something of mine, I always like hearing that they like it.  But if that's all they say--"I liked it"--that's actually extremely unuseful critique even though I enjoyed hearing it.  It gives me warm fuzzies, which is great, but doesn't help me improve my work at all.)

I think if this is something you're really wanting to do, you're going to have to come to grips with the idea that not all the feedback you get will be the sort I'm giving you in this thread.  Sometimes it will be short and blunt, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, sometimes long and detailed--sometimes it'll just be "I liked it" or "I don't like it", with no real clarification.  Other than outright name-calling and personal insults, though, every form of feedback can be useful in its own way.  And if it's outright name-calling and personal insults (which, in this case, darashand's response was certainly not), then there's no point in wasting your time and energy raging at it.  Throw the comment out and move on.  You know?  If it's not at that level, it's probably worth listening to and considering, even if you don't ultimately agree with it or didn't like how it was said.
While everyone loves compliments and warm fuzzies, as do I, I don't mind hearing my stuff sucks, just give an explanation, or a full critique.  Like what you did, you analyzed and critiqued my poem, in a well thought out manor.  I guess I just took it the wrong way.  I guess you made me realize that this poem is more of a supportive poem, in that it does better surrounded by poems that help to define it better and support the themes in it.  Than a poem that stands alone.  I thought it could stand on it's own.  I was wrong.
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« Reply #18: August 28, 2009, 03:04:44 pm »

That's your problem if you chose to take it that way.  Speaking from experience, highly emotional poetry without concrete imagery  is considered to be amateurish.  Also, readers want to relate to what you are saying, not fill in the blanks themselves.  If they must, they may as well write their own poems.  And honestly, the creative writing class wasn't a "hit" on you (actually, none of what I said was).  I think every writer should study their craft, especially if they want to go far.  Taking such a class can provide invaluable tips and critiques that makes a better writer. 
True, emotional responses are a choice, and I chose unwisely to take it the wrong way, and I am sorry.  And like I said with the Monkey's Paw reference, sometimes your imagination is sparked in such a way that it is rewarding to the writer to have done so.  To send one into such a tangent.  But I'm guessing I have not accomplished that.
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« Reply #19: August 28, 2009, 06:11:42 pm »

True, emotional responses are a choice, and I chose unwisely to take it the wrong way, and I am sorry.  And like I said with the Monkey's Paw reference, sometimes your imagination is sparked in such a way that it is rewarding to the writer to have done so.  To send one into such a tangent.  But I'm guessing I have not accomplished that.

It's okay.  I had a similar reaction to editors wanting to change my words and my (lack of) punctuation habit.  "You wanna change my words!  These are *my* experiences, you have no idea!"  In the end, I realized they were trying to help me and made me a much better writer for it.  Like with the creative writing classes, I was able to see their point of view as well as what worked and what didn't.  Again, invaulable experience. 

I think you have potential.  I think studying your craft by taking poetry classes and workshops, in addition to any literature course, which does expose you to various styles of writing, will help you learn by reading and critiquing others' work.  The writing prompts and the background information of how to write are a huge help when constructing your own work.  It also provides much encouragement and opportunites to make connections with the right people.  Also, I cannot say this enough, reading helps people learn to write.  And this is true of anyone, the suggestions here are in general, not specifically aimed at you. 
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« Reply #20: August 28, 2009, 06:56:14 pm »

It's okay.  I had a similar reaction to editors wanting to change my words and my (lack of) punctuation habit.  "You wanna change my words!  These are *my* experiences, you have no idea!"  In the end, I realized they were trying to help me and made me a much better writer for it.  Like with the creative writing classes, I was able to see their point of view as well as what worked and what didn't.  Again, invaulable experience. 
Thanks!  I hear you about the punctuation habit. Wink  But maybe you are right, maybe I could benefit from some constructive criticism.  I never really edit my poems and on some, I have to admit it shows.  I believe in leaving them in their raw form to leave the beauty of the emotions shine through.  But that's just me.
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« Reply #21: August 28, 2009, 08:11:06 pm »

Thanks!  I hear you about the punctuation habit. Wink  But maybe you are right, maybe I could benefit from some constructive criticism.  I never really edit my poems and on some, I have to admit it shows.  I believe in leaving them in their raw form to leave the beauty of the emotions shine through.  But that's just me.

editing sucks - but if you want to be understood, it's necessary.

Trust me, I wish it wasn't.  GODS I wish it wasn't.

*spent HOURS today rewriting a chapter*
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