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Author Topic: Brighid of the Forge  (Read 24852 times)
Ellen M.
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« Reply #105: November 09, 2010, 03:43:24 pm »

I thought about wordpress, they have a theme that can be used for shared blogging.
Why dont I set up a test-blog there and we can play a bit first to see if it works?


Works for me. Smiley
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« Reply #106: November 09, 2010, 05:05:32 pm »

Works for me. Smiley

I'm good with whatever people set up.  I just want to point out that TCN groups have the tools to do pretty much everything we need.  We can do a poetry blog where people can post their poetry and other writing, we can have a photo album for any art that develops, we can have discussion threads, we can put up document files for several people to work on, there's even task and calendar functions that would let us organize things like writing ritual.

The only problem is that Randall has had to temporarily close registrations because of a spammer problem.  Sad

So I'd like to suggest that we maybe just continue posting poetry here until we can get into TCN.  If we do start a TCN group, we can move everything into it.

Or, those of us who are already registered can get it set up (yes, I volunteer), it will be all set for everyone else when Randall is able to open the registrations.  In fact, I have all day tomorrow (Wednesday) to work on it -- I think I'll have a laptop tomorrow.  So I can set everything up, and even move the poetry over there.

I just sorta think that Randall went to A LOT of trouble to provide TCN for the TC community, and I think we should be supportive of his efforts.  He has given so much of himself to this forum.  He needs to know we appreciate that.

But I'll yield to the group consensus if others feel differently about this.
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« Reply #107: November 09, 2010, 05:06:33 pm »

The biggest difference I feel between Brighid and Athena is the different crafts they take up. Brighid is a forger and a smith; Athena is a weaver.

Hmmm.  Is it a coincidence, then, that traditional Brighid's crosses are *woven*?
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« Reply #108: November 09, 2010, 05:12:34 pm »

I wrote a chant this morning (actually, it kind of whacked me on the face and wouldn't let me go back to sleep). It doesn't really have a title, but here it is.

I edited your message to add your video inline in the message so people don't have to go to Youtube to view it.
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« Reply #109: November 09, 2010, 05:21:05 pm »


My Friends,

This is just a quick post to let everyone know that I probably won't be able to be online much this evening.  At least, not until the wee hours.  I'm at the mercy of my daughters' needs for their computers, since mine died ages ago.  And my girls keep whining about needing their computers to do silly things like school work.   Wink

Also, physical therapy was especially difficult on me today.  My lower jaw is completely out of alignment, and the joint on the right side of my face grinds and pops incredibly painfully whenever I open my mouth.  Which I tend to do pretty regularly. Cool  So I'm going to take some pain meds and lie down for a while.

I'm so happy to see all the activity this is generating!  There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is real, very real, and transformative in ways we can't even imagine right now.  

It's as if we were in that metaphor where the blindfolded people describe the portion of the elephant they can feel.  To one person, it seems to be a wall.  To another, it seems to be a tree trunk.  To another, it feels like a hose.  And now we're casting off our blindfolds and trying to grok this amazing, awe inspiring, exotic elephant creature.

As I said in my post above, I will have a lot of time tomorrow to work on the mundane logistics of keeping all this together in as coherent and organized a way possible.  I think that's imperative to our forward movement on the path we're blazing.

I also want to say briefly that I dreamed last night that this -- whatever this is -- this epiphany led us to create a path we and others can walk together, much like Shadow is doing with Flamekeeping (and how interesting that she chose that name!  Wink ).  I could see a  a training program, mentors, and even the ability to initiate people.

I'm not saying we're going to get there over night.  Just that I think we might get there.  With Her help, of course.

So, I'm going to have to sign off in a few minutes.  But I'll try to be back in the middle of the night.  If anyone has suggestions about how I should set up the TCN group or anything else like that, please post and let me know.

Thank you all so much for...all of this!

Aster
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« Reply #110: November 09, 2010, 05:46:46 pm »


Aww *hugs*, sorry you feel so bad.
And yes, this here is quite something.
In fact, I was already in bed and got up again, because "it" wont let me sleep!  Roll Eyes

Tomorrow I will be dead on my feet.
I hope She cares to provide me a bit of extra get up and go to work energy.  Cheesy

Of course we appreciate the TCN.
And it would work for all we need, as you say.
It was just an idea, to make shared blogging possible, without needing to go on the TCN. (Spammertrouble and so on...)

Maybe we could start a separate thread and transfer all the poetry in question there, so that we wont have to plow through all the different threads later.  Cheesy

The path we forge... again the word Wink ... do you laugh at me, when I say, that I had seriously thought about how nice it would be, to be able to offer a German grove (or whatever we want to call it then) if we get so far?  Cheesy

We might be crazy, but at least we are not alone with it.  Grin
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« Reply #111: November 09, 2010, 11:10:44 pm »

Hmmm.  Is it a coincidence, then, that traditional Brighid's crosses are *woven*?

Depends - do you believe in coincidences?
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« Reply #112: November 09, 2010, 11:15:52 pm »

The path we forge... again the word Wink ... do you laugh at me, when I say, that I had seriously thought about how nice it would be, to be able to offer a German grove (or whatever we want to call it then) if we get so far?  Cheesy

I don't want to put the cart before the horse, but I've been thinking about the sheer potential this movement (can we even use that word yet?) could have. At the very least, you're more than welcome to translate what I've written into German. Smiley

Quote
We might be crazy, but at least we are not alone with it.  Grin

Quite a comforting thought!

Just a note - I'm going to spend at least a day or so away from TC, or at least away from all the Brighid-ing going on. I feel like I'm overstimulating myself and I really need to catch a breather and sort some things out. (Not to mention I'm behind on homework and my novel.) I need to gather more fuel for the fire. Cheesy If anyone needs to get in touch with me, it's all on my bio page. I'd really like to hear from you via facebook, email, or im, actually - I need to start getting to know all my fellow travelers. ^_^
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« Reply #113: November 10, 2010, 12:33:31 am »


I just want to let everyone know that I've started a TCN group for our work together, The Lady of the Stars.

I've set up some initial features: a discussion for the ritual planning, a photo album for art work, a blog for creative writing.  Over the next few days, as I have access to a computer, I'll work on transferring the poetry and other things that have been posted in the current TC threads.  I hope everyone will feel free to begin posting in that group.

For people who have not yet set up a TCN account:  You might have some trouble with that in the very near term.  Randall has had to disable the registration function because of a spam tsunami.  However, he can approve registrations, so I think people should probably go ahead and attempt to register, so Randall can approve them as he gets to them.

In the meantime, if there's something someone wants to post to the group but can't because of registration issues, just keep posting here and we'll get it transferred when we can.

Thanks again, everyone!!!  This is so exciting.  It's starting to settle into my brain now, and it feels very comfortable.  I hope that's true for the rest of you.
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« Reply #114: November 10, 2010, 12:52:56 am »

Will do, but not until I've caught up on the rest of TC and done a few other things, since it could get long.
Right then... my observations about deities and individuation/identity.

This is heavily UPG-based in that it comes from direct interaction with deity-type people, but I've tried (not just here, but in my general view of the matter) to stick more to observation and avoid doing more interpretation/speculation than  necessary, and I often cross-check things to see how they correlate with scholarship/fact.  (And when I appear to be quoting deities' words, I'm translating impressions into words - in general, the more direct the quote appears to be, the stronger and clearer, and easier to articulate, the impression.)

Also, I'm kind of infodumping anything I have (or all I can remember) that bears on what deities are, where they come from, and how they individuate (or don't, or are cryptic in ways that aren't wholly uninformative) from each other, on the assumption that I have no idea what might be useful to you all.

So there's this one-eyed wanderer dude - for quite a while, he was okay with being called "Odin", but was pretty emphatic that he wasn't that Odin; spending all one's time roaming to far places and finding stuff out isn't compatible with being boss god of a pantheon.  But, yeah, he lost his eye by willingly sacrificing it for knowledge.  I tried out common alternate names - Woden, Wotan - but, nope, he's not those guys either.  Since my best guess is that he represents an earlier manifestation, I did some digging (just Wikipedia, but it had what I needed and seemed fairly solid on the subject) and constructed "Votans" (spelled with a "v" to remind me to pronounce it that way), with which he declared himself reasonably satisfied.  All this to a near-constant grumble about, "I'm not those guys.  Who are those guys anyway?  Nothing to do with me.  Nothing, I say!"  Of course that's not completely true; at minimum, their names are linguistically cognate to his, even if the names are applied to a bunch of different entities, and those entities have some core interests in common - but, sure; Sunflower and Aster are semi-cognate names, and we have interests in common, but I'm not her Cheesy, and perhaps I'd be that emphatic about the distinction if people kept conflating us.  Still, methinks the gentleman doth protest, if not too much, then quite a lot more strongly than necessary.

And there's Thoth - Hellenized name, but the entity I interact with is more Kemetic.  But when I learned that was Hellenized and the Kemetic name was Djehuty, and asked if I should be calling him that, his response was along the approximate lines of, "No; that's who I was when I was young and had not travelled as much."

Dionysus and Bacchus:  I see two dudes, one definitely Hellenic, one Romanized (and absolutely not Father Liber) - but they come very much as a pair; neither of them interacts with me independently of the other.  It seems to work best to think of them as separated and non-identical, but not separate.

Papa Legba is a loa; he is not the orisha Eshu/Eleggua.  This is more research-based, a matter of what descriptions/characteristics fit and what don't, but it's also a UPG-based matter of the name the entity I work with prefers to be called.  (This is probably David Byrne's fault Cheesy.)  If asked about connections, he vaguely alludes to kinship, but doesn't explicate.

I'm still not positive about the entity whom I've tagged successively as "Sister Moon", ArtemisAthena, Athena the Huntress, Diantha, and most recently just Diana (but who might be Vanth... or not) - the thing I'm most certain about is that she doesn't give a hoot about chastity, which is why I decided she wasn't any of the Greek deities whom she resembled (virginity, in the "belongs to no man" sense, hells yes; chastity, no).  But she doesn't quite fit any single "profile".  What makes this particularly frustrating is that she's the deity I've been aware of the presence of for the longest (since I was 12) - she's not helpful about this, she doesn't seem to much care what I call her, and is all, "It is what it is; I am who I am."  Of those I work with, she's the one I most correlate with what I've picked up about the Feri Star Goddess, which kinda fits with the "it is what it is", but it's not a close correlation.  She could be the manifestation in my practice of The Lady/"Brighid of the Stars", but if so, that's not the capacity in which she and I interact.

Coyote appears in the mythos of many FN/AI cultures, but in a variety of forms, many of them apparently-mutually-exclusive.  (I've sometimes wondered if some of the instances of his appearance might be the result of tribes picking up that name from European proto-ethnographers as applicable to tricksters even when said trickster never appears in the form of canis latrans.)  Some mythos (mythoses?) posit him as Creator, either of the world or of humans - the former positioning doesn't make him Great Omni-Omni-whatever, it's more akin to the Gnostic idea of the demiurge (though with less evil and more irony/prankishness); the latter seems to be similar but in a narrower scope.  My Chaotic Canine is amused; he says, "I didn't make the world - I just made it interesting."  Other mythos have him as a figure that disrupts creation, or as a culture hero.  Which one is my Coyote?  All of them and none, I think - he turns up in many places, plays many tricks and schemes many schemes big and small, and how he's seen depends on the conditions of a place and the values of the people who live in it (will major changes screw up the food supply and threaten the tribe, with no compensating advantages, or will they bring new opportunity even as they make old ways no longer tenable?).

Weyland is Weyland, he isn't Hephaestos, Vulcan, Govannon, Goibnu, or even Völundr - those are his guild-brothers.  Or, anyway, he acknowledges a kinship of some or another kind, that has to do with the commonality of being smiths; I get the feeling it's a bit closer than just being in the same trade.

The Morrigan:  "<looking to either side> Nope, I don't see anyone else; just one of me."  Which may refer only to how many of her interact with me.  For me, when she comes as part of a set, it's with Brigid and/or The Dagda (colloquially, the Magillicuddy sisters, Bridey and Maggie, and their brother Mick - mostly not my idea; see disclaimer at end of post), not with other Morrignu.  I'm reasonably sure the "sibling" terminology is about being pantheon-sibs with particular ties, rather than descriptors of actual familial relationships; by most accounts, tD is Brigid's father not brother, with either tM or, as someone else mentioned, Danu, being her mother.  OTOH, I'm not at all certain deities' familial relationships occur in the same way as human-type people's do (and that elides the differences in human-type people's cultural understandings of familial relationships).  There's no component here of tM and Brigid being sister-aspects of a single entity, either; they just tag-team a lot because they care about a lot of the same things, like social justice.

Rhiannon and Epona:  whatever their historioculture development might be, for me they're two entirely separate entities - heck, Rhiannon isn't even a horse-goddess w/r/t her interactions with me, whereas Epona very much is both a horse-goddess and a goddess of horses.  My UPG-experiences aren't evidence for anyone but me, but putting them in context of the available historical scholarship, I'd surmise that there's no commonality of origin at all.  (Oddly, the closest thing I've had to a convo with either of them on the subject was the exchange when Epona first made it clear she was going to stick around - me: "But I already have a horse-goddess in my personal pantheon!"  Epona:  "No, you don't."  Me:  "But... oh.  Right.")

Mars Silvanus - possibly the Roman take (insofar as we can parse it out) on godname-with-epithet is closest to how I operate, not just in this instance but generally; I don't interact with Mars-any-other-epithet or with Mars-in-general, I interact with Mars in his capacity as a deity of agriculture and war (because when there's a tribe on every hilltop, sometimes ya gotta fight to defend your crops).  Part of the same numen, but a specific part that's sort of a numen in its/his own right.  Mars Silvanus doesn't say, "I'm not him," or, "I'm him," or, "I'm part of him;" he just feels baffled when I try to ask, as if the assumptions underlying any phrasing of the question are orthogonal to how it all works, and any answer he might attempt would be incomprehensible to me.  (He's far from the only one suggesting incomprehensibility past a certain point; I get a lot of, "We-elllll, yes but no, but it doesn't work like that, and it's complicated.")

I'm not even sure just what a deity is - the word has a lot of baggage that isn't always useful or relevant to a polytheist (hence my frequent use of "deity-type people" - and "god" is even worse; you may notice).  But the rest of my personal pantheon treat [? still working out a name] as if he's the same sort of being that they are, even though human-type people might identify him as an ancestor-spirit, or a symbol of a concept, rather than a deity.  He's "* the First Shaman", representation of humans/protohumans' first interactions with, um, Mystical Weird Shit and the first "technician of the sacred" - not that I think there was a single nexus of origin (only if it happened before people spread out, and since we don't even know just when and how that happened, how can we even guess whether they had People Who Deal With Mystical Weird Shit, or whether there's any continuity to the PWDWMWS of later cultures?); this started simply with me writing a myth about how PWDWMWS get into that biz (because they're the one who, when the Mystical Weird Shit arrives/occurs, didn't run and hide, but thought up something to do to deal with it, and it worked - so guess who everyone looks at the next time MWS arrives/occurs?).  I wrote it as a story, so * was an individual to whom this happened... and next thing ya know, there he is, hanging out with my personal pantheon, treating them and being treated by them as they treat each other.

Welsh Manawyddan isn't Irish Manannan (not as closely associated with the sea, for one thing), but - or so Manawyddan gives me to understand - they're not exactly different people either.  The term I coined for such a correlation is "cognate-brother" (sister, sibling, as applicable); Manawyddan seems to like it quite well, and to find it to be adequately descriptive, as a figurative and metaphorical term of convenience (a very strong contrast to Votans' attitude)... oh.  Could be because Manawyddan and Manannan are, like as not, pretty much contemporaries, and both derive from the same earlier figure - a "cognate-father" if you will - whereas if I'm right about Votans being an earlier manifestation than Odin/Woden/Wotan, he's the "cognate-father", or close to it (at that point the parent/child analogy begins to break down; the familial relationships of linguistics don't work like those of humans).  Could be what he's snorting about is, "Those young upstarts are nothing to do with me."  Have to explore that possibility.

I've talked about parts of this before on TC - possibly most of it - but this is the first time it's been all in one place, or in that much detail.

(Footnote for Juni, personal pantheon members not mentioned above:  Hekate, Yinepu, Iris, Hermes, Brigid, Bast, Prometheus, Oya, Seshat, Freyja, Gwyn ap Nudd, Inanna, Nokomis, Freyr, Cerridwen, Cernunnos.)

The Disclaimer:  "Wow, how the heck did you get tangled up with so many deities, and such a mixed bag?"  (And other things that make readers go  Shocked.)  I quote Darkhawk, from her wonderful essay "On Eclecticism" (it's right near the end):
Quote
I don't know, man, I didn't do it -- sometimes a motley assortment of gods shows up in someone's life and makes it clear that They don't intend to go away.  At this point, the poor pagan is left to figure out how the heck they're supposed to deal with this confounding pile of miscellanea.

I'm everlastingly thankful that it didn't happen all at once, but gradually over many years, and most of it not until I'd been a practicing much-softer polytheist for years (apparently, I was still poaching, in both senses of the word Cheesy - hence, polytheist poached medium-hard); I could deal with the confounding pile a few deities at a time, and I had some kind of background to apply.  Otherwise - that be me.  I dunno, man, I didn't do it - I'm just a PWDWMWS.

Sunflower
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 12:55:25 am by SunflowerP, Reason: tweaking typos » Logged

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« Reply #115: November 13, 2010, 10:38:34 pm »

Right then... my observations about deities and individuation/identity.

Thanks for taking the time to post all that, Sunflower.  I couldn't read it at first -- too long for my poor brain -- but finally made my way through it tonight.  And it was worth the effort.

My experiences with Brighid are very different from your experiences with your many deity-type people.  I can't say I'm not hugely glad I only have the one to deal with!  Wink

I think you are correct that deity familial relationships are different in some fundamental way from human familial relationships. 

And I also think it's fascinating that one deity can appear so different to different people -- while still being the same deity.  I think we're going to be working on that issue for a long time in the group that is currently forming around Brighid.
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« Reply #116: November 14, 2010, 05:29:10 am »

I dunno, man, I didn't do it - I'm just a PWDWMWS.

 Cheesy
I just love this post.
Thanks for sharing.
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